Dalmatia Yugoslavia was Italian Speaking??

[Jana]

"Auguste de Marmont, the French Governor General of the Napoleonic Illyrian Provinces commissioned a census in 1814–1815 which found that Dalmatian Italians comprised 25% of the total population of Dalmatia."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_irredentism

Romance speaking =/= Italian

''In the lists of the 19th and early 20th century as a rule is not question of nationality, only exceptionally, while mostly recorded the main language in which a student used or native language. In Dalmatia, Rijeka and Istria, in the traded and operated mainly with Italy and where the four centuries of Venetian rule Italian cultural influence was great, it was difficult to distinguish ethnic Italians from others who are in daily life used Italian. During the second half of the 19th century, following the Italian Risorgimento and the Croatian National Revival and the construction of the Croatian and Italian nation, electoral equality of the Croatian language in education and public life in 1883, more Croats, Serbs and Slovenes on the east coast stops to speak Italian.

1910 in Zadar 66.3% of the population spoke Italian, Split 9.75%, while in Sibenik 6.4%. ''

[JohnSmith]

No. Dalmatia never had significant Italian population in history (unlike Western Istria) except few coastal coties lile Zadar (Zara). I don't care for Italian occupation maps, Dalmatia has been Croat since we moved here from Northern Europe amd cradle of Croatian medieval state. All our earliest churches are there and Croat kings have been crowned there. Pre-Slavic population of Dalmatia was not Italian but Romanized local Illyrian who spoke Dalmatian language, and they have been mixing and assimilating with Slavs since 5th century AD.

Dalmatia is Croatian.

I suppose 25% is not considered a large population by the end of WWI it was probably less than 25%. Italy lobbied the French and British to Annex the region but they were unsuccessful.

I am stating what was going on during the "Treaty of Paris" negotiations the truth is Italy did try to annex Dalmatia during the breakup of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

Woodrow Wilson's 14 Points plan for the end of WWI point IX explains what I am saying. Croatia is never even mentioned.

[Jana]

I suppose 25% is not considered a large population by the end of WWI it was probably less than 25%. Italy lobbied the French and British to Annex the region but they were unsuccessful.

I am stating what was going on during the "Treaty of Paris" negotiations the truth is Italy did try to annex Dalmatia during the breakup of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

Woodrow Wilson's 14 Points plan for the end of WWI point IX explains what I am saying. Croatia is never even mentioned.

There is no probably, but sure. Italian population in Dalmatia was never close to 25%, not even in wildest irridentist dreams. Only one city (Zara/Zadar) was Italian speaking , one city. Other cities and entire countryside was Slavic speaking (Croatian and Serbian).
Ofcourse Italy wanted to annex Dalmatia, and ? Croatia after world war 1 was part of Yugoslavia, however I spoke about historical Croatian State that was born in Dalmatia.

I am half Dalmatian and know more about it's history than you do. None of my ancestors ever had any Romance language as mother tongue (but they knew to speak Italian and Latin) as it was great rarity. Dalmatian language was truly spoken in Dalmatia among Croats (again not among majority) but as I already said it has died out and it was not Italian.

[Sekarotuinen]

Treaty of Paris did it right. Zara and Istria were rightfully Italian until post WW2.

[Jana]

Treaty of Paris did it right. Zara and Istria were rightfully Italian until post WW2.

You are American and completely ignorant about European affairs. Only Western Istria (cities Pula, Rovinj, Poreč) was majority Italian while Eastern Istria was completely Croatian (first Croatian medieval state had border in Eastern Istria, on River Raša). I don't consider Western Istria historically Croatian land as it was not for most of it's history however complete Dalmatia has always been that. Don't speak about things you know nothing about.

[JohnSmith]

There is no probably, but sure. Italian population in Dalmatia was never close to 25%, not even in wildest irridentist dreams. Only one city (Zara/Zadar) was Italian speaking , one city. Other cities and entire countryside was Slavic speaking (Croatian and Serbian).
Ofcourse Italy wanted to annex Dalmatia, and ? Croatia after world war 1 was part of Yugoslavia, however I spoke about historical Croatian State that was born in Dalmatia.

I am half Dalmatian and know more about it's history than you do. None of my ancestors ever had any Romance language as mother tongue (but they knew to speak Italian and Latin) as it was great rarity. Dalmatian language was truly spoken in Dalmatia among Croats (again not among majority) but as I already said it has died out and it was not Italian.

I am sure you know what you are talking about I am just stating what I read. But obviously there are debates and disagreements as the one census figure said 25% Italian in 1815(it did not say Romance speaking it said Italian), which was during the Napoleonic wars. I am not sure why this would of been made up but maybe it is not accurate.

Obviously Italy's claim to the region was rejected, so there must not of been a large enough Italian population to annex it. It speaks for itself.

No one during WWI knew or cared about Croatia or the Balkans. They did not even care for Italy or Russia. The only thing that really mattered to the Allies was France and Britain. As they were the ones that set the post war borders.

[JohnSmith]

Treaty of Paris did it right. Zara and Istria were rightfully Italian until post WW2.

I do not even know where those places are but they are probably very small areas that do not matter anyway.

[Sekarotuinen]

You are American and completely ignorant about European affairs. Only Western Istria (cities Pula, Rovinj, Poreč) was majority Italian while Eastern Istria was completely Croatian (first Croatian medieval state had border in Eastern Istria, on River Raša). I don't consider Western Istria historically Croatian land as it was not for most of it's history however complete Dalmatia has always been that. Don't speak about things you know nothing about.

Stop being so upset. You're people are the benefeciaries of the genocide committed by the Ustaše, and the subsequent expulsion of Italians, then later, sucking up to NATO to take Croatian and Bosniak lands.

[Sekarotuinen]

I do not even know where those places are but they are probably very small areas that do not matter anyway.

Zara (Now called Zadar), is on the Illytian coast. Istria is the Penninsula split up by Italy, Slovenia, and Croatia. It was a part of the Austria Duchy of Carinthia for about 1000 years before WW1.

[Jana]

I am sure you know what you are talking about I am just stating what I read. But obviously there are debates and disagreements as the one census figure said 25% Italian in 1815(it did not say Romance speaking it said Italian), which was during the Napoleonic wars. I am not sure why this would of been made up but maybe it is not accurate.

I would need to check the source but it doesn't make sense.

Obviously Italy's claim to the region was rejected, so there must not of been a large enough Italian population to annex it. It speaks for itself.
No one during WWI knew or cared about Croatia or the Balkans. They did not even care for Italy or Russia. The only thing that really mattered to the Allies was France and Britain. As they were the ones that set the post war borders.

I don't deny there have been Italians in Dalmatia but they were never numerous and influence was rather cultural (as Dalmatia has been sold to Venice by Hungarian-Croatian King after numerous wars for the region which Venice failed to conquer) and it spent several centuries under Ventian rule (which was colonial like). In the coastal cities Romance language was language of the educated and Venetian nobles lived in Dalmatian cities (togheder with local Romanized natives who also became later ''Italianized''). Only part of Dalmatia that did not come under Ventian rule was Ragusa (Dubrovnik Republic) which was also Latin speaking among the elite however they haven't been Italian (much of the Romance speaking Ragusan nobility was Croat).

You must understand that after centuries of Venetian rule and exploatation by them Croatian(Slavic) element in Dalmatia has been weak and de-nationalized. However things changed after Croatian national revival and improved status of Croatian language.
If you come to Dalmatia you can see the architecture and culture is typically mediterranean but spirit and folklore is Croatian.