Are Romanians slavs or Latin?

[Kelmendasi]

Romanians are closer to Croats (or inbetween) than to Albanians, what the heck are you on about?
He doesn't represent Romanians, he said himself he isn't Romanian, he must be some magical goth or something..... Rather ask Grishnack or edgabe, he represents Romanians better....

HAHAHAHAHA . Yep deymark or GOTHMARK as I now call him genuinely believes that he is of Gothic origin

[Jana]

Romanians are closer to Croats (or inbetween) than to Albanians, what the heck are you on about?
He doesn't represent Romanians, he said himself he isn't Romanian, he must be some magical goth or something..... Rather ask Grishnack or edgabe, he represents Romanians better....

I wrote Romanians are closer to Albanians then Bosniaks are, and that is correct. Don't worry, I have nothing against Romanians, they (Deymark and IncelSlayer) seem more like Serbs in disguise than genuine Romanians anyway.

[Kelmendasi]

I wrote Romanians are closer to Albanians then Bosniaks are, and that is correct. Don't worry, I have nothing against Romanians, they (Deymark and IncelSlayer) seem more like Serbs in disguise than genuine Romanians anyway.

Nah Deymark/Incelslayer are GOTHS in disguise

[Stears]

Wlach/Vlach is nothing more but germanic and slavic term for Roman citizens of fallen Empire 476 AD, Slavs/Germanics would name them Vlach, nevermind were those Vlachs Romanized Celts or Romanized Dacians or Romanized Martians.

I was already writing about this, I opened entire thread, but Im on mobile now so I dont have time to copy my full text here.

Anyway, term VALONS comes from Vlach, same as Wales etc...

Means: Vlachs are not ethnic, not by origin or genetics, just a term for Romanized europeans.

Polish ppl even today call Italy as: WLOCHY, again term Vlach.

About Romanians and origin of their nation; it has no sence to me that they're Vlachs from Balkan who migrated to Romania because of simple reason, logical reason; around 30% (or more) Romanians have Y-DNA I2a1b, no way this Ydna came from Balkans there, majority of scientists agrees that Dacians were more than probable Y-Dna I2a1b along with some Slavic tribes.

Wallachia in Romania is another Vlach term, but area where romance is actually still alive language (Romanian).

Plz ppl, think...draw conclusions for yourself sometimes on more than educated theories, this are facts.

So around 30% of Romanians are Ydna I2a1b, we can conclude those are Dacian descendants and Slavic descendants, all Romanized.

Rest of Romanians belongs either to Romanized Thracians or Latins themselves, means some proportion of Italics (term Romanian comes from Rumun which means Roman).

No need for fights here, I think we need civilized discussion on threads, especially on such as this one because Romanians are more than interesting from genetical, historical and linguistical aspect.

Cannot remember other dominant Ydna haplogroups in Romanians, I think they are J2, R1A and E-V13, someone correct me if Im wrong, but even so, this are facts what I wrote and logical conclusions.

Cheers

The picking up some latin origin words, does not mean that roman culture was copied. Balkan Vlachs were nomadic people (ancestors of romanians were late- nomad people).
Or do you consider the culture of ancient Rome and Romans as late-nomadic??? ))))))))))

VLACHS (Romanians) WERE THE LATEST NOMADIC ETHNIC GROUP IN EUROPE, the vast majority of Romanian population preserved its nomadic lifestyle and heritage until the end of 16th century. They were known as late - nomadic people in medieval chronicles. The first romanian vlach churches were built only around the turn of the 13th & 14th century. No known Vlach archiutecture existed before that period. The romanian literacy and their earliest chronicles appeared only in the early 17th century (Grigore Ureche's chronicle). USE Google books! (The word's largest digitalized library, the largest collection of printed books) See the Google Books results in English language (search the British, American, Canadian & Australian authors about medieval romanians Vlachs):


Link to the book:
https://books.google.com/books?id=bR...-gypsy&f=false


B. Fowkes (2002) : Ethnicity and Ethnic Conflict in the Post-Communist World -PAGE: 12


"That curious minority, the Vlachs of the Balkans, for example, were on the face of it Romanians ('Wallachians') but in fact the name was also applied to Slavs who shared the same pastoral, nomadic life as the Romanian shepherds."


Link to the book:
https://books.google.com/books?id=_q...lvania&f=false


Norman Berdichevsky (2004): Nations, Language and Citizenship -page: 181.


"The “true Romanians” are held to be interlopers who were nomadic shepherds that migrated into Transylvania from the ... then transferred to “Wallachia,” the traditional core area of the Romanian state located east and south of Transylvania."


Link to the book:
https://books.google.com/books?id=Xo...-gypsy&f=false


Victor Roudometof (2002): Collective Memory, National Identity, and Ethnic Conflict: Greece, Bulgaria, and the Macedonian Question - PAGE: 128


"The Vlachs are mainly pastoral nomads dispersed among the states of Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Greece, Albania, and Romania. Since they are Orthodox Christians, they have mostly become part of the predominantly Eastern Orthodox ..."




Link to the book:
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...-gypsy&f=false


Roumen Daskalov, ?Alexander Vezenkov - 2015: Entangled Histories of the Balkans - Volume Three: Shared Pasts, Disputed Legacies PAGE: 309


"Zlatarski adds an a priori statement that the very thought of an uprising could occur only to Bulgarian local notables or voivods, not to the nomadic Vlachs, who he says were at a low level of cultural development"


Link to the book:
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...0-roma&f=false


Rob Humphreys, ?Susie Lunt, ?Tim Nollen - 2002 : Rough Guide to the Czech & Slovak Republics - Page 408


"Wallachian culture As far as anybody can make out, the Wallachs or Vlachs were semi-nomadic sheep and goat farmers who settled the mountainous areas of eastern Moravia and western Slovakia in the fifteenth century."




Link to the book:
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...EED8gQ6AEILzAE


Marek Koter, ?Krystian Heffner - 1999 : Multicultural regions and cities - Page 164


"Nomadic shepherds from the Balkan Peninsula (Wallachians) were moving along the bow of the Carpathians in search of new pastures. "


Link to the book:
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...dnCLgQ6AEIHDAA


Marek S. Szczepañski Wydawn. Uniwersytetu Œl¹skiego, Jan 1, 1997 - Ethnic Minorities & Ethnic Majority: Sociological Studies of Ethnic Relations in Poland -PAGE: 325
"They were just the Wallachian people (nomadic tribes from the present Romania) from who contemporary Lemks descended; it should be testified by both the elements of material culture, similarities of customs and languages"


Link to the book:
https://books.google.com/books?id=ow...tains.&f=false


Normal J. G. Pounds - 1976 - : An Historical Geography of Europe 450 B.C.-A.D. 1330, Part 1330 -PAGE: 251


"The chief importance of the Vlachs lies, however, in the possible relationship to the Romanians. ... Ages, crossed the Danube into Walachia and continued their pastoral and semi-nomadic life in Transylvania and the Carpathian Mountains."

[Deymark]

[B]The pic

Untermenschen those books you posted have no mention about romanians, except 1.Most speak of aromanians and they are not scientific books but their opinions about history,most importantly modern politically motivated books.

Here are objective scientific books about romanians:

The continuity of the romanian people in its ancient land was sustained over time and by:
Poggio Bracciolini, Disceptationes convivales, 1451;
Enea Silvio Piccolomini (pope Pius the II),
Historia rerum ubique gestarum locorumque descriptio, 1489;
Johann Troester, "Das alt und neu Teutsche Dacia" , Ngremberg, 1666
Antonius Bonfinius, Herum Ungaricarum decades quatuor cum dimidia, Basileae, 1568, decad. III, lib. IX, p. 448 si 538;
I, lib. 1 si II lib. 7; J. Vadianus,
Epitome trium terrae partium,Asiae, Africae et Europae compendiarium locorum descriptione, continentes, Tiguri, 1534, p. 38;
Johannes Lebel, De oppido Thalmus, 1542, ed. Ioannes Seivert, Cibinii, 1779, p. 11—12;
Antonio Maria Graziani (1537—1611), De Ioanne Heraclide Despota, în É. Legrand, Deux vies de Jaques Basilicos, Paris, 1889, p. 169— 171;
Johann Tröster, Das Alt-und Neu Teutsche Dacia.Das ist Neue Beschreibung des Landes Siebenbürgen, Nürnberg, 1666, p. 323;
M. Felmer, Kurzgefasste Historische Nachricht von der Wallachischen Völkerschaft überhaupt und derjenigen insonderheit der heut zu Tage in dem Kayserlichen Königlichen Erb — Fürstenthum Siebenbürgen anzutreffen ist, în „Archiv des Vereins für siebenbürgische Landeskunde”, VII, 1867, p. 419;
E. Gibbon, The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, I, 1788, p. 226;
Appony, Note XII of January 21, 1920, "Les negociations of the paix hongroise ", Vol. I, p. 420;
I. C. Schuller, Zur Frage über den Ursprung der Romänien und ihrer Sprache, Sibiu, 1855, p. 7;
Paul Joseph Schafarik, Slavische Alterthüme , Leipzig, 1844, p. 205;
Josef Kemény, Über der Entstehungszeit der ungarischen Komitate, în „Magazin für Geschichte”, I, 1844, p. 231 — 232;
A. de Gerando, La Transylvanie et ses habitants, Paris, 1845, p. 309;
J. A. Vaillant, La Roumanie, I, 1844, p. 41 — 42;
Amedée Thierry, Histoire d’Attila, Paris, 1856, p. 32;
E. A. Bielz, Handbuch der Landeskunde Siebenbürgens,Sibiu, 1857, p. 139— 143;
Julius Jung, Die Anfänge der Romanen. Kritisch — ethnographische Studien, în „Zeitschrift für Öesterreichischen Gymnasium”, 27, 1876, p. 92;
Josef Ladislau Pic, Über die Abstammung der Rumänen, Leipzig, 1880;
A. Dopsch, Wirtschafliche und soziale Grundlagen der europäischen Kulturentwicklung, Berlin, 1923;
C. Tagliavini, Studi Romeni, 3, p. 115;
K. Jaber, Die Rumänische Sprach — Atlas und Struktur des daco-rumänischen Sprachgebites, în „Vox Romanica”, V, 1940, p. 73;
Ernst Gamillscheg, Uber die Herkunft der Rumänen, Berlin, 1940;
Gustav Kisch, Siebenbürgen im Lichte der Sprache, ein Beitrag zur Kulturgeschichte des Karpathenländer, Leipzig, 1926;
F. Altheim, Die Soldatenkaiser, Frankfurt am Main, 1939, p. 201 —202;
Giono Lupi, Intorno all’origine dei Romeni, în „Annuario de R. Liceo Ginnasio A. Manzoni”, 1931— 1932;
Jaroslav Müller, Nasi rumunsti sousede, Praha, 1932;
R. W. Seton-Watson, A History of the Roumanians from Roman times to the completion of Unity, Cambridge, 1934, p. 5 —6 si 9—10;
M. Besnier, Histoire des Hongrois et de l’État magyar, Paris, 1934;
Marcel Emerit, Les derniers travaux des historiens roumains, în «Revue des études anciennes», 1939, p. 57 — 64;
Hans Koch, Die neue Propyläen — Weltgeschichte, Berlin, 1940, p. 505;
Mario Ruffini, Il problema della romanità nella Dacia Traiana. Studio storicofilologico,Roma, 1941;
"Hungary and Transylvania" , German version " Ungarn und Siebenbgrgen" , Leipzig, Verlag von J.J. Weber, 1842, pp 144-145 etc., etc.

As previously proven,thoughout history the daco-roman continuity was a fact on each corner of this planet, even in Hungary the sane scientists declared the same:
András Huszti(XVIII century magyar chronicle writter and historian) in his "The old and New Dacia" book published at Viena in 1791;
István Losontzy ,
Szilagyi Sandor(MOST IMPORTANT modern Hungarian historian , member of the Hungarian Academy of Sciences, who has worked on over 73 books),
Mihály Horváth(was a Hungarian Roman Catholic bishop, historian, and politician. He was an exponent of Hungarian nationalism with an emphasis on its historical culture).So even a nationalist hungarian shits on you.
G. Petrovay in 1911 (in " Szazadok, XLV -1911 , p. 607 -626 )
F. Eckhart writes in Magyaroszág története, Budapest, 1933, pg 21
Iosif Bánki (1764)
Gábor Fábián in the ethnography of Arad in 1835
Theodor Lehoczky in 1890,
The Hungarian writer Gyarfas E. in his work " A roman gorog katolikusok autonomiaja, Budapesta 1905" brings valuable information about the Romanians from Bihor in the first part of the eleventh century, 1000-1038 to be exact.
Martin Opitz, one of the most important German writers, lived in Transylvania between 1622 and 1623, and wrote Zlatna, oder von der Ruhe des Gemuths(1622), where he speaks about the Daco-Latin origin of the autochthonous people of Transylvania.He began work on a historical book, "Dacia Antiqua sive Comentarii Rerum Daciarum", a work that has unfortunately been lost. "Es hat das wuste Volek grantz Asien bezwungen/Die Griechen/ Thracier/ vnd Mysios verdrungen/ Auch ewer Dacien / der Romer bestes Land Von langen Jahren her / verheert vnd auBgebrand."

[Stears]

Untermenschen those books you posted have no mention about romanians, except 1.Most speak of aromanians and they are not scientific books but their opinions about history,most importantly modern politically motivated books.

Wrong. All of the books mentioned Vlachs (as Romanians) only in the territory Wallachia or Moldavia. ISn't it interesting?

[Dandelion]

Wlach/Vlach is nothing more but germanic and slavic term for Roman citizens of fallen Empire 476 AD, Slavs/Germanics would name them Vlach, nevermind were those Vlachs Romanized Celts or Romanized Dacians or Romanized Martians.

I was already writing about this, I opened entire thread, but Im on mobile now so I dont have time to copy my full text here.

Anyway, term VALONS comes from Vlach, same as Wales etc...

Means: Vlachs are not ethnic, not by origin or genetics, just a term for Romanized europeans.

Polish ppl even today call Italy as: WLOCHY, again term Vlach.

About Romanians and origin of their nation; it has no sence to me that they're Vlachs from Balkan who migrated to Romania because of simple reason, logical reason; around 30% (or more) Romanians have Y-DNA I2a1b, no way this Ydna came from Balkans there, majority of scientists agrees that Dacians were more than probable Y-Dna I2a1b along with some Slavic tribes.

Wallachia in Romania is another Vlach term, but area where romance is actually still alive language (Romanian).

Plz ppl, think...draw conclusions for yourself sometimes on more than educated theories, this are facts.

So around 30% of Romanians are Ydna I2a1b, we can conclude those are Dacian descendants and Slavic descendants, all Romanized.

Rest of Romanians belongs either to Romanized Thracians or Latins themselves, means some proportion of Italics (term Romanian comes from Rumun which means Roman).

No need for fights here, I think we need civilized discussion on threads, especially on such as this one because Romanians are more than interesting from genetical, historical and linguistical aspect.

Cannot remember other dominant Ydna haplogroups in Romanians, I think they are J2, R1A and E-V13, someone correct me if Im wrong, but even so, this are facts what I wrote and logical conclusions.

Cheers

Interestingly, German-speaking Swiss to this day call their Francophone neighbours 'Welshe'. It means 'foreigner' but was used for Romans and Romanised peoples. Also interesting how it's a Germanic loan in proto-Slavic; the fact that such word got into Slavic.

[Deymark]

Wrong. All of the books mentioned Vlachs (as Romanians) only in the territory Wallachia or Moldavia. ISn't it interesting?

No, you subhuman you have cherrypicked from google books whatever fits your fantasy.I see that this time you have removed the one from Races of Europe, from Coon whom you called the best anthropologist, weeks ago, for obvious reasons.

example:

Wallachian culture As far as anybody can make out, the Wallachs or Vlachs were semi-nomadic sheep and goat farmers who settled the mountainous areas of eastern Moravia and western Slovakia in the fifteenth century."

reality:

[Stears]

No, you subhuman you have cherrypicked from google books whatever fits your fantasy.I see that this time you have removed the one from Races of Europe, from Coon whom you called the best anthropologist, weeks ago, for obvious reasons.

example:

reality:

AGAIN:

Link to the book:
https://books.google.com/books?id=bR...-gypsy&f=false


B. Fowkes (2002) : Ethnicity and Ethnic Conflict in the Post-Communist World -PAGE: 12


"That curious minority, the Vlachs of the Balkans, for example, were on the face of it Romanians ('Wallachians') but in fact the name was also applied to Slavs who shared the same pastoral, nomadic life as the Romanian shepherds."


Link to the book:
https://books.google.com/books?id=_q...lvania&f=false


Norman Berdichevsky (2004): Nations, Language and Citizenship -page: 181.


"The “true Romanians” are held to be interlopers who were nomadic shepherds that migrated into Transylvania from the ... then transferred to “Wallachia,” the traditional core area of the Romanian state located east and south of Transylvania."


Link to the book:
https://books.google.com/books?id=Xo...-gypsy&f=false


Victor Roudometof (2002): Collective Memory, National Identity, and Ethnic Conflict: Greece, Bulgaria, and the Macedonian Question - PAGE: 128


"The Vlachs are mainly pastoral nomads dispersed among the states of Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Greece, Albania, and Romania. Since they are Orthodox Christians, they have mostly become part of the predominantly Eastern Orthodox ..."




Link to the book:
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...-gypsy&f=false


Roumen Daskalov, ?Alexander Vezenkov - 2015: Entangled Histories of the Balkans - Volume Three: Shared Pasts, Disputed Legacies PAGE: 309


"Zlatarski adds an a priori statement that the very thought of an uprising could occur only to Bulgarian local notables or voivods, not to the nomadic Vlachs, who he says were at a low level of cultural development"


Link to the book:
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...0-roma&f=false


Rob Humphreys, ?Susie Lunt, ?Tim Nollen - 2002 : Rough Guide to the Czech & Slovak Republics - Page 408


"Wallachian culture As far as anybody can make out, the Wallachs or Vlachs were semi-nomadic sheep and goat farmers who settled the mountainous areas of eastern Moravia and western Slovakia in the fifteenth century."




Link to the book:
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...EED8gQ6AEILzAE


Marek Koter, ?Krystian Heffner - 1999 : Multicultural regions and cities - Page 164


"Nomadic shepherds from the Balkan Peninsula (Wallachians) were moving along the bow of the Carpathians in search of new pastures. "


Link to the book:
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...dnCLgQ6AEIHDAA


Marek S. Szczepañski Wydawn. Uniwersytetu Œl¹skiego, Jan 1, 1997 - Ethnic Minorities & Ethnic Majority: Sociological Studies of Ethnic Relations in Poland -PAGE: 325
"They were just the Wallachian people (nomadic tribes from the present Romania) from who contemporary Lemks descended; it should be testified by both the elements of material culture, similarities of customs and languages"


Link to the book:
https://books.google.com/books?id=ow...tains.&f=false


Normal J. G. Pounds - 1976 - : An Historical Geography of Europe 450 B.C.-A.D. 1330, Part 1330 -PAGE: 251


"The chief importance of the Vlachs lies, however, in the possible relationship to the Romanians. ... Ages, crossed the Danube into Walachia and continued their pastoral and semi-nomadic life in Transylvania and the Carpathian Mountains."

[Seya]

1.The genetic tests on romanians are mostly done in Bucharest and Dobrudza!

how do u know? the tests where made all over the country. come on already..this is ridiculous...

I don't belive Romanians from different regions are that different (except those from Repulic of Moldova who are different indeed). Bucharest has people from all over country, as all capitals in Europe do.
Family tree DNA shows ancestry back 2000 tousands years. Make a test and post your results than. Or is there world wide conspiracy against Romanians ?

Genetics is irrelavant in ethnic identity anyway. But I see you use it against Albanians who are usual Southern European people, which is pretty low. And since when is Herzegovian dialect (Stokavian) Serbian ? Since Vuk wrote it so ?

the latest genetic tests made on romanians from different regions show indeed quite significant genetic differences between them.