The Greeks

[Hellenas]

Since everyone here will use his own historical sources to claim Greek Vlachs for Romanians or Greeks, of Romanian or of Greek origin, here is the scientific proof of what they are and by whom they descend.

the majority of Vlachs belong to the West Macedonian type or the type of Northern Pindos and partly to the Epirotic and the Central Helladic variety.

Agreeing with the tested anthropological results we can agree that the Vlachs of Western and Central Macedonia, Northern Thessaly and partly of Eastern Epiros (Aetomilitsa etc) constitute one type that almost cannot be distinguished from the type of the rest inhabitants of Western Macedonia;

The geographic differentiation of traits shows the antiquity of the anthropological type of the Vlachs. It is hard to distinguish the Vlachs from the population that surrounds them.

the 'Vlachs' belong in their majority to 'The Mediterranean Race'

Some bibliographies (Diamands,M., and M.Mendosa, 1938) state that the ancestors of the Vlachs came from Romania into Greece during the middle ages.

The material collected by the Russian anthropologist V.V. Bounak (Bounak, V.V., 1945), studying the population of Romania, compared with ours does not allows such a conclusion.

The comparison of the anthropological material of two provinces of Romania; Oltenia (Small Vlachia) and the Mountenia (Larger Vlachia) leak out many differences.

The Vlachs of Greece have a higher stature and a lighter colouring compared to the Romanians. The Vlachs of Moravia which were studied by Suk and Augusta (Suk, K., et K.Augusta, 1933), show some varieties of anthropological types which distinguish them from the types of the population that surrounds them.

Contrary, the Vlachs of 'Istria (Coon, S., 1939), are very brachycephalic, tall, brown and are classified as Dinaric types.

Conclusions Regarding The Origin Of The Romanophones

1) The Romanophones of Greece are, in their majority, descendants of an indigenous population. Influenced of 'northern' types to the indigenous population existed even from the antiquity.

the Neolatin and Slavic languages (As the conquest of the Celts in an older era) do not had a great influence on the morphology of the inhabitants in that area.

Nevertheless they are nearest towards the anthropological types of the peoples closest where they lived since antiquity.

Therefore, so the Romanophones of the Northern areas of Greece are more related anthropologically with the Hellenophones of that areas.

Aris Poulianos, "The origin of the Greeks", compilation from pages 150-164, year 2001.

http://hellas2010.proboards.com/thre...aris-poulianos



Greek Vlachs are Romanians, blah, blah, blah...

[Laberia]

The Byzantine Empire (Romania/Ῥωμανία) with its inhabitants romans/romaioi is not to be confused with România/Romania with its inhabitants romanians/români...

No, was you who confuse this situation. You are rumun, not romanian.

[Deymark]

Since everyone here will use his own historical sources to claim Greek Vlachs for Romanians or Greeks, of Romanian or of Greek origin, here is the scientific proof of what they are and by whom they descend.

the majority of Vlachs belong to the West Macedonian type or the type of Northern Pindos and partly to the Epirotic and the Central Helladic variety.

Agreeing with the tested anthropological results we can agree that the Vlachs of Western and Central Macedonia, Northern Thessaly and partly of Eastern Epiros (Aetomilitsa etc) constitute one type that almost cannot be distinguished from the type of the rest inhabitants of Western Macedonia;

The geographic differentiation of traits shows the antiquity of the anthropological type of the Vlachs. It is hard to distinguish the Vlachs from the population that surrounds them.

the 'Vlachs' belong in their majority to 'The Mediterranean Race'

Some bibliographies (Diamands,M., and M.Mendosa, 1938) state that the ancestors of the Vlachs came from Romania into Greece during the middle ages.

The material collected by the Russian anthropologist V.V. Bounak (Bounak, V.V., 1945), studying the population of Romania, compared with ours does not allows such a conclusion.

The comparison of the anthropological material of two provinces of Romania; Oltenia (Small Vlachia) and the Mountenia (Larger Vlachia) leak out many differences.

The Vlachs of Greece have a higher stature and a lighter colouring compared to the Romanians. The Vlachs of Moravia which were studied by Suk and Augusta (Suk, K., et K.Augusta, 1933), show some varieties of anthropological types which distinguish them from the types of the population that surrounds them.

Contrary, the Vlachs of 'Istria (Coon, S., 1939), are very brachicephalic, tall, brown and are classified as Dinaric types.

Conclusions Regarding The Origin Of The Romanophones

1) The Romanophones of Greece are, in their majority, descendants of an indigenous population. Influenced of 'northern' types to the indigenous population existed even from the antiquity.

the Neolatin and Slavic languages (As the conquest of the Celts in an older era) do not had a great influence on the morphology of the inhabitants in that area.

Nevertheless they are nearest towards the anthropological types of the peoples closest where they lived since antiquity.

Therefore, so the Romanophones of the Northern areas of Greece are more related anthropologically with the Hellenophones of that areas.

Aris Poulianos, "The origin of the Greeks", compilation from pages 150-164, year 2001.

http://hellas2010.proboards.com/thre...aris-poulianos

This is why we have problems.
Yes, all of today european populations that neighbor eachother, look like eachother.This does not constitute any proof.A good example are szeklers from Romania.They are mostly indistinguishable from romanians,this is not a proof that their origin is romanian.Not at all.We know exactly their origin from writtings.Do you have any primary chronicle or some contemporany writting attesting vlachs being autochtonous to Greece?No you don't.
I invite you to read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jire%C4%8Dek_Line . It is impossible for a romance language to appear below Jirecek line.
Now regarding the bolded part.It is plain wrong.Romanians are a few shades lighter than aromanians, how can that pseudo-historian claim this and then also claim they are of med race?This would make romanians arabs!

[Deymark]

No, was you who confuse this situation. You are rumun, not romanian.

Romanians starting with early 16th century call themselvs romanian.Meanwhile schqiptari never called itself albanian, this name they have stolen from celtic albanians, the previous inhabitants of Albania they found when they migrated there.So I would not be this big mouthed.

[wvwvw]

There are Greek-Orthodox communities all over the Middle East, although most are fleeing home right now and soon none of them shall be left:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_...rch_of_Antioch

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_...h_of_Jerusalem

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_..._of_Alexandria

Most of the members of these churches are not even speaking Greek.

Only Greeks belonged to those Greek Orthodox communities. Antioch was once a vibrant Greek community. When Byzantium lost the provinces in the middle east, the Greeks got forcefully Islamicized, or remained Greek Orthodox against all odds. But they lost their language and since both Muslims and Christians speak arabic they intermixed with the local populations so much that they are no longer Greek. They do not even speak Greek in their churches but arabic, while the Greek church still speaks in Ancient Greek.

Being Greek Orthodox is not the only criterion for being Greek. Language and common descend is also a requirement. You can't be one thing without the other. Unless you also speak Greek and have the same way of life and share common memories with your compatriots you are not considered in Greek. For these reasons they Greek gov does not recognize them as Greek.

The lost descendants of Hellenism: The Antiochian Greeks

To many in the West the Middle East is simply known as the ‘Arab World’. From the Mediterranean Sea to the border of Iran, one language, one religion, one ethnicity divided into modern Nation-States. These states created by the Great Powers at the close of the First World War, however is this reality. Who are these people we know as ‘Arabs’? Just what makes a person an Arab? The truth is that the Arab world is made up of people from various different ancestral origins, religious backgrounds and historic identities lumped together as just simply Arabs. Once one realizes this the question arises to whether Arab Identity is actually more a linguistic, cultural or political identity, rather than an ethnic or racial one.

Although a multiethnic country, the National Charter of the Independence of Lebanon (1943) stated only one ethnicity for its citizens: “Lebanon has an Arabic face, Arabic language, and is part of the Arab world.” This paved the way for a bloody struggle to establish a national identity out of its various social, religious, and ethnic groups.

At the end, of the Lebanese civil war (1975-1990), the Taif Agreement was signed in Saudi Arabia, and definitively enforced the same Arab identity on all Lebanese: “Lebanon is Arab in belonging and identity. It is an active and founding member of the Arab League and is committed to the league's charter. [...] The state of Lebanon shall embody these principles in all areas and spheres, without exception.”

Overall the majority in Lebanon are to view themselves as Arabs, in the sense that Arabic is the national language, while the cultural backgrounds and ancestors of many in the country vary between Arab, Armenian, Aramaean, Phoenician and Greek. It is as a result of these different cultural backgrounds that within the Christian minorities of Lebanon feelings of ethnic identity have turned against Arabness.

[wvwvw]

A Lebanese can be of Arab, Armenian, Aramaean, Phoenician or Greek descend because Lebanon was colonized by all these people.

[Hellenas]

This is why we have problems.
Yes, all of today european populations that neighbor eachother, look like eachother.This does not constitute any proof.A good example are szeklers from Romania.They are mostly indistinguishable from romanians,this is not a proof that their origin is romanian.Not at all.We know exactly their origin from writtings.Do you have any primary chronicle or some contemporany writting attesting vlachs being autochtonous to Greece?No you don't.
I invite you to read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jire%C4%8Dek_Line . It is impossible for a romance language to appear below Jirecek line.
Now regarding the bolded part.It is plain wrong.Romanians are a few shades lighter than aromanians, how can that pseudo-historian claim this and then also claim they are of med race?This would make romanians arabs!

What the hell, except of a refuser of his own words this Romanian pretends he don't understand what he is reading. Greek Vlachs who found metrically identical to surrounding Greeks and have no similarity to Romanian vlachs... are not Greeks but Romanians.

This does not constitute any proof.

That's exactly what it does, you can keep posting pseudo-historical nonsense.

Some bibliographies (Diamands,M., and M.Mendosa, 1938) state that the ancestors of the Vlachs came from Romania into Greece during the middle ages.

The material collected by the Russian anthropologist V.V. Bounak (Bounak, V.V., 1945), studying the population of Romania, compared with ours does not allows such a conclusion.


Now that's a Romanian crying.

[Deymark]

What the hell, except of a refuser of his own words this Romanian pretends he don't understand what he is reading. Greek Vlachs who found metrically identical to surrounding Greeks and have no similarity to Romanian vlachs... are not Greeks but Romanians.



That's exactly what it does, you can keep posting pseudo-historical nonsense.

That's my point.Romania has more minorities than Greece, hell Dobrudza itself has more than Greece has.And except the tatars and lipovans, they all look indistinguishable from romanians.The difference is that we didnt sank this low to claim all minorities were always romanian.Its the same as painting a red egg green then claim that it firstly was green.Pathetic.

Unless you have any contemporany written,linguistical(including toponyms),archaelogical proof than you are irrelevant in this discussion.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Who do you mean by the rest? Who else is left besides, Slavs, Armenians, Assyrians, Jews, Copts etc? Bulgarians weren't part of the Byzantine Empire, nor Armenians who had their own state with their own language, army, and monphysite Religion.



Define nation state. Is France a nation state?

Today it is. Dialectal differences are insignificant.

All the lands that the Byzantine empire consisted of were all the lands with entirely Greek populations including Moria, Achaia, Macedonia, Thrace, all of Asia Minor (including Aeolia, Ionia, Lycia, Mysia, Lydia, Caria, Paphlagonia), and the lands which were colonised by Greeks including Syria-Palestine, Egypt, Lybia, Sicily and Southern Italy, and all of which followed Greek Orthodoxy (which was distinct from the churches of Bulgaria, Serbia, and Russia). The Byzantine empire was essentially the nation state of Greece.

Asia Minor and the Middle East were never majority Greek.

The Byzantine empire did not include Bulgaria because it was part of the Bulgarian empire. It did not include Serbia because it was part of the kingdom of Serbia. It consisted of all the lands which followed Greek Orthodoxy.

You forgot Basil the Bulgar-Slayer?

[Petros Houhoulis]

Only Greeks belonged to those Greek Orthodox communities...

Find me the Greek surnames:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_..._and_structure

After the death of the head of the Patriarchate of Antioch, Ignatius IV (Hazim), Patriarch of Antioch, Syria, Arabia, Cilicia, Iberia, Mesopotamia and All the East, on December 7, 2012, Metropolitan Saba Esber was elected locum tenens until the election of the new patriarch. On Monday, 17 December, the Holy Synod of Antioch announced^[7] the election of Metropolitan John (Yazigi) as the new Patriarch, taking the name John X.Archdioceses and metropolitans[edit]

In the Middle East:

• Archdiocese of Damascus: Patriarchal diocese
• Archdiocese of Aleppo (Beroea) and Alexandretta: Paul Yazigi (2000–present)
• Archdiocese of Bosra, Hauran and Jabal al-Arab: Saba Esber (1999–present)
• Archdiocese of Homs (Emesa): George Abu Zakhem (1999–present)
• Archdiocese of Hama (Epiphania) and Exarchate of North Syria: Elias Saliba (1984–present)
• Archdiocese of Latakia (Laodicea ad Mare) and Exarchate of Theodorias: John Mansour (1979–present)
• Archdiocese of Beirut and Exarchate of Phoenicia: Elias Audi (1980–present)
• Archdiocese of Akkar: Basilios Mansour (2008–present)
• Archdiocese of Mount Lebanon, Byblos and Botrys: George Khodr (1970–present)
• Archdiocese of Zahlé and Baalbek (Heliopolis): Antonios El Soury (14 Nov 2015-present)
• Archdiocese of Tripoli and el-Koura: Ephraim Kyriakos (2009–present)
• Archdiocese of Tyre and Sidon: Elias Kfoury (1995–present)
• Archdiocese of Baghdad, Kuwait and Dependencies: Ghattas Hazim (2014–present)

in Asia and Oceania:

• Archdiocese of Australia, New Zealand, and All Oceania: Paul Saliba (1999–present)

in Europe:

• Archdiocese of France, Western and Southern Europe: Ignatius Alhoushi (2013–present)
• Archdiocese of Germany and Central Europe: Isaac Barakat (2013-present)
• Archdiocese of the British Isles and Ireland: Silouan Oner (2015-present)

in the Americas:

• Archdiocese of North America (Englewood, New Jersey); Archbishop of New York and Metropolitan of All North America: Joseph Al-Zehlaoui (2014–present)
  
  • Diocese of New York and Washington, D.C.: Archbishop's diocese, resident Assistant to the Metropolitan – Bishop Nicholas Ozone (2011–present)
  • Diocese of Worcester and New England: John Abdallah (2011–present)
  • Diocese of Miami and the Southeast: Antoun Khoury (2004–present), Titular Bishop of Seleucia (1983–2003)
  • Diocese of Wichita and Mid-America: Basil Essey (2004–present), Titular Bishop of Anfeh (1992–2003)
  • Diocese of Los Angeles and the West: Vacant
  • Diocese of Eagle River and the Northwest: Vacant
  • Diocese of Charleston, Oakland and Mid-Atlantic: Thomas Joseph (2004–present)
  • Diocese of Toledo and the Mid-West: Anthony Michaels (2011–present)
  • Diocese of Ottawa, Eastern Canada and Upstate New York: Alexander Mufarrij (2004–present)
  
  
• Archdiocese of Buenos Aires and Argentina: Siluan Muci (2006–present)
• Archdiocese of Mexico, Venezuela, Central America and the Caribbean: Antonios Chedraoui Tannous (1996–present), Bishop of Cesarea and Patriarchal Auxiliary for Mexico (1966–1996)
• Archdiocese of Chile: Sergios Abad (1996–), Bishop of Salamias and Patriarchal Auxiliary for Chile (1988–1996)
• Archdiocese of São Paulo and All Brazil: Damaskinos Mansour (1997–present)

Titular dioceses and bishops[edit]

• Diocese of Philippopolis: Niphon Saykali (1988–), elevated to Archbishop in 2009 and elevated to Metropolitan in 2014, Representative of the Patriarch of Antioch and All the East at the Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia
• Diocese of Darayya: Moussa Khoury (1995–), Patriarchal Assistant – Damascus
• Diocese of Saidnaya: Luka Khoury (1999–), Patriarchal Assistant – Damascus
• Diocese of Cesarea(Kayseri): Ignatius Samaan (2011–), Auxiliary Bishop in Venezuela, Archdiocese of Mexico
• Diocese of Bloudan: Nicholas Baalbaki (2011–), President of the Spiritual first instance court
• Diocese of Nineveh: Athanasius Fahd (2011–), Auxiliary Bishop in Tartous, Archdiocese of Akkar
• Diocese of Banias: Demetrios Charbak (2011–), Auxiliary Bishop in Safita, Archdiocese of Akkar
• Diocese of Arthoussa: Elias Toumeh (2011–), Auxiliary Bishop in Marmarita, Archdiocese of Akkar
• Diocese of Zabadani: Constantine Kayal (2011–), Abbot of St Elias – Shwayya Patriarchal Monastery
• Diocese of Palmyra: Youhanna Haikal (2011–), Auxiliary Bishop in the Archdiocese of Germany and Central Europe
• Diocese of Seleucia: Ephrem Maalouli (2011–), Patriarchal Vicar and Secretary of the Holy Synod
• Diocese of Sergiopolis: Markos Khouri (2011–), Auxiliary Bishop in the Archdiocese of São Paulo and Brazil
• Diocese of Edessa: Romanos Daoud (2011–), Auxiliary Bishop in the Archdiocese of São Paulo and Brazil
• Diocese of the Emirates: Gregorios Khoury-Abdallah (2014-)
• Diocese of Erzurum: Qays Sadek (2014-)

Retired bishops[edit]

• Archdiocese of Zahlé and Baalbek: Spyridon Khoury (1966-2015)
• Diocese of Yabroud: Athanasius Saliba (1979–)
• Diocese of Jableh: Demetrios Khoury (1995–)

Daughter churches[edit]

• Church of Cyprus: Granted autocephaly by the Church of Antioch in 431 AD.
• Church of Georgia: Granted autocephaly by the Church of Antioch in 474 AD.
• Church of Imereti and Abkhazia: Granted autocephaly by the Church of Antioch in the 1470s, but suppressed by the Russian Empire in 1814 and continued to be a dependency of the Church of Moscow and all Russia until 1917 when it was reunited with Church of Georgia.