Grimes about Kosovo war

[Petros Houhoulis]

NATO is an aliance of democracies...

Neither Greece nor Turkey were kicked out of NATO when they run by dictators, not to mention that Turkey was never really a democracy...

[Trilecce]

Neither Greece nor Turkey were kicked out of NATO when they run by dictators, not to mention that Turkey was never really a democracy...

I dont know why you waste your time like this. I dont believe that you dont know the answer to this question that your asking? Greece was an extremely important part of NATO considering its geostrategic position on the south of a HUGE communist block. Same goes for Turkey. But trust me on one thing. The stupidity of greeks and turks wouldnt spread any further, and they eventually went back on track. Would you have preferred being ousted from NATO and left to the communists? They would eat you country like a bowl of tzatziki.

And wasnt the junta formed in order to deal with communism?

[Petros Houhoulis]

I dont know why you waste your time like this. I dont believe that you dont know the answer to this question that your asking? Greece was an extremely important part of NATO considering its geostrategic position on the south of a HUGE communist block. Same goes for Turkey. But trust me on one thing. The stupidity of greeks and turks wouldnt spread any further, and they eventually went back on track. Would you have preferred being ousted from NATO and left to the communists? They would eat you country like a bowl of tzatziki.

And wasnt the junta formed in order to deal with communism?

The junta in Greece was established by George Papadopoulos, who was the contact between the Greek secret services and the CIA. He did it in order to stop Communism, with help from the CIA.

I don't know about the juntas in Turkey, but the one at 1980 was definitely anti-Communist as well.

Neither the Greek nor the Turkish Communists were anywhere close to gaining power. They were much closer to that in Italy.

Thus your claim that NATO supports democracies is a joke...

[Trilecce]

The junta in Greece was established by George Papadopoulos, who was the contact between the Greek secret services and the CIA. He did it in order to stop Communism, with help from the CIA.

I don't know about the juntas in Turkey, but the one at 1980 was definitely anti-Communist as well.

Neither the Greek nor the Turkish Communists were anywhere close to gaining power. They were much closer to that in Italy.

Thus your claim that NATO supports democracies is a joke...

Dude, democracy can eat itself up. As it is doing today and as it did once in Germany. The juntas was a necessity to keep up freedom and democracy, if you would have fallen to communism, then democracy would have been completely erased instead of being paused and rebooted by the junta. Then as in now, the supernations fight for control and influence. And if you look to the bottom line, do you really want authoritarian chinese and russian influence over liberal american influence? Complete independance is impossible, but trust me, you wont be any more independant with comunists, russians or chinese influencing your country, its quite the contrary, the respect for democracy wil be lost, and Russia/China wouldnt give a flying fuck about how democratic or undemocratic you are.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Dude, democracy can eat itself up. As it is doing today and as it did once in Germany. The juntas was a necessity to keep up freedom and democracy, if you would have fallen to communism, then democracy would have been completely erased instead of being paused and rebooted by the junta. Then as in now, the supernations fight for control and influence. And if you lok to the bottom line, do you really want chinese and russian influence over american? Complete independance is impossible, but trust me, you wont be any more independant with comunists, russians or chinese influencing your country, its quite the contrary, the respect for democracy wil be lost, and Russia/China wouldnt give a flying fuck about how democratic or undemocratic you are.

I told you that neither Greece nor Turkey were about to become Communist states because of democracy. In fact the Greek Communist party was banned long before the junta, but was legalized after the junta collapsed.

Get your facts straight. Greece did never tried to be completely independent anyway...

[Trilecce]

I told you that neither Greece nor Turkey were about to become Communist states because of democracy. In fact the Greek Communist party was banned long before the junta, but was legalized after the junta collapsed.

Get your facts straight. Greece did never tried to be completely independent anyway...

Oh, you internet forum dweller. You must be able to see in that crystal ball of yours every reason behind why there was a junta... The junta fought communism, thats stated everywhere that you read about it. How close they were or why they did it, neither of us really know. But however, your still in NATO and its thanks to NATO that you can salute your white and blue flag instead of a red star.

[Kush]

OP is a faggot and a fucking Spanish immigrant to boot.

[Deymark]

So albanians haven't any arguments to post... Nothing more than serbians are the evils! serbians bad! albanians good and pure...

It is very hard for this kosovoar albos, when they too realise the truth.They feel worthless, like they were fooled their whole life.The sentiment is similar to the one of wanting to suicide.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

So you know whats in Khaddafis plans and intentions for us? Do you see those intentions in your crystal ball? Isnt it only fair for us to fuck him up when hes weak as revenge for trying to fuck us up when we were weak? If he would concentrate himself on running his own country as best as he can instead of meddling with other peoples country, then he could have been supported in the way that Jordan and Saudi arabia gets supported by the free and democratic world.

I don't need a crystal ball. I can look at behavior. What is said and was reported being done.

'Fucking him while he's weak' has led to instability in North Africa, many deaths, and an a larger wave of migrants coming from North Africa. It made everything worse. It didn't make it better. This isn't Game of Thrones.

Oh yeah? To whos benefit was the attempted assaniation of Montenegros president a earlier this year?

I know of an accusation. I don't know of hard evidence.

For the record I don't have a hard on for Putin or any national leader. All national governments play the same game for influence but there is no good guys versus bad guys.

So you think NATO is profiteering organisation? Where is its source of income? And what is its net profit?

I think it's a corrupt organization that undermines national sovereignty and some people naturally profit. Unfortunately I don't have NATO tax records with me. I can however point out to prostitution rings (include child prostitution) run by people working for NATO taking advantage of situations and drug smuggling that has, by the way, been reported for quite some time. It's nothing new.

NATO is an aliance of democracies, dont you think that it benefits these countries to spread democracy? Or at least creating a peacufull enviroment so that free enterprise and democracy can grow from within?

Please let me know where NATO has spread democracy or anything else you just mentioned and I'll help clear your misconception.

Other countries are meddling in yours, why shouldnt you counterpunch?

I just looked out my window. There are no foreign soldiers to be seen. There are no foreign military bombers flying over me dropping bombs.

No democracy starts out in a good position. The countries who have the best start have an elite commited to a smooth transition from monarchy to democracy. Even your country has had its tough times, but how does that excuse a dictatorship?

My country is not a democracy. It's a Republic. I have less rights today than I would have had 50 years ago. Under the Patriot Act I could be arrested and detained with my civil liberties, which is supposed to be guarded by the Bill of Rights, disregarded.

That other nations have dictators is not our problem. There are bad governments all over the world. It's impossible to deal with them all and more importantly it is absurd to think those populations will magically accept a foreign way of life. They don't have centuries of developing institutions where individual rights, etc. are paramount. What happened during the Arab Spring in Egypt? The people elected a tyrant. The Muslim Brotherhood was now calling the shots. They had democracy and they chose to put in power someone who wasn't keen on democracy ironically. So what did the US do? They undermined the democratically elected tyrant.

Do you understand now? You can't force a way of life on people that they don't want.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Frank, in the perfect world. How should the Kosovo conflict be handled?

Allow Milosevic to show he was sincere when he said he would give back Kosovo's autonomy. If he wasn't sincere the KLA would have the right to go on the offensive. If Milosevic's response was to cleanse the area of Albanians, then NATO would have a legitimate reason to intervene for the sake of both Albanian and Serbian civilians of Kosovo.

The above isn't only possible in a perfect world. It was possible back then. The offer of autonomy without NATO making its harsh demand of free reign in Serbia and Kosovo and not be subject to Serbian laws is what was the problem for the Serbian government.

Its one thing to critisize everything, i could do that to almost any subject. Prove to us that your not only mindlessly discrediting the west, tell us what should have been done.

Personally, if I had been the US president and not looking to bury all my scandals by bombing a poor country trying not to lose part of its country, I would have stayed out of it. I'm an American. I'm not a Kosovo Albanian. I'm not a Serbian. My job is to look out for the well being of my people. That money spent on bombs to blow up Belgrade has much better use.