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Thread: Moorish Invasion and Its Genetic Contribution in Iberia

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazbolat View Post
    I don't know where you get these numbers
    It is from MDLP K16 spreadsheet, calculators you mentioned first when discussing NA admixture in Iberia.
    but Neolithic component originated in Levant and migrated to Europe during the Neolithic expansion, it is still strong in South Europe and Levant. Caucasus Hunter Gatherer (CHG) spread into Arabia during the Bronze Age (that's where haplogroup J in Arabia come from) and haplogroup J became dominant via founder effect.
    Neolithic which is very high in Iberians is fully-European related, as already mentioned it is highest in Sardianians/Basques and not any MENA group. North-western Europeans like English, Scottish, Norwegian will score high neolithic too, but very little Caucasus. It is in south-eastern Europe where Caucasus scores start to rise.

    MENA's in that calculator score lot more Caucasian than neolithic, it's simply fact. Here, purest Levantines (where you claim neolithic is strong), Lebanese (3 population averages mean):

    Caucasian: 47,38 %
    Neolithic: 14, 05 %

    Caucasus component is almost 3 times more. The same pattern in Arabian Gulf. That's why I claimed it's highly Natufian related, with ANE admixture. In this calculator neolithic component is simply lot more European-related than Caucasian.
    (I'm not biased as I score only little bit more neolithic than Caucasian, people in eastern side of Europe have more Caucasian admixture than westerners)


    From Eurasia k9 ASI calculator

    Saudi
    SW Asian 65.30
    Early_Neolithic_Farmers 15.01
    Caucasus Hunter Gatherers 13.68

    They only have 13% CHG
    But these are very different components. those calculators are not similar, therefore comparison isn't much possible. SW Asian from this calculator was probably split between Near Eastern and Caucasian in MDLP K16, that's why the scores are different.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feiichy View Post
    It is from MDLP K16 spreadsheet, calculators you mentioned first when discussing NA admixture in Iberia.

    Neolithic which is very high in Iberians is fully-European related, as already mentioned it is highest in Sardianians/Basques and not any MENA group. North-western Europeans like English, Scottish, Norwegian will score high neolithic too, but very little Caucasus. It is in south-eastern Europe where Caucasus scores start to rise.

    MENA's in that calculator score lot more Caucasian than neolithic, it's simply fact. Here, purest Levantines (where you claim neolithic is strong), Lebanese (3 population averages mean):

    Caucasian: 47,38 %
    Neolithic: 14, 05 %

    Caucasus component is almost 3 times more. The same pattern in Arabian Gulf. That's why I claimed it's highly Natufian related, with ANE admixture. In this calculator neolithic component is simply lot more European-related than Caucasian.
    (I'm not biased as I score only little bit more neolithic than Caucasian, people in eastern side of Europe have more Caucasian admixture than westerners)



    But these are very different components. those calculators are not similar, therefore comparison isn't much possible. SW Asian from this calculator was probably split between Near Eastern and Caucasian in MDLP K16, that's why the scores are different.
    No, that would not make sense. SW Asian is closer to Neolithic/Med/ENF component and it usually gets split between Med/EEF and SW/Near East components.

    Anyway, Yamnaya itself was 1/2 CHG-West Asian 1/2 EHG, and CHG is definitely less Basal Eurasian shifted than EEF component.


    You are still misinterpreting CHG input in Arabia/Gulf, it was spread to those regions during the Bronze Age (with haplogroup J), which means the Arabian Peninsula was even more Basal Eurasian-like before receiving CHG and SSA ancestry. Arabs' CHG admixture is meaningless, because we know the distances between different components and ENF/Mediterrenean component is absolutely closer to SW Asian component, which in turn closest to Basal Eurasian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazbolat View Post
    No, that would not make sense. SW Asian is closer to Neolithic/Med/ENF component and it usually gets split between Med/EEF and SW/Near East components.

    Anyway, Yamnaya itself was 1/2 CHG-West Asian 1/2 EHG, and CHG is definitely less Basal Eurasian shifted than EEF component.


    You are still misinterpreting CHG input in Arabia/Gulf, it was spread to those regions during the Bronze Age (with haplogroup J), which means the Arabian Peninsula was even more Basal Eurasian-like before receiving CHG and SSA ancestry. Arabs' CHG admixture is meaningless, because we know the distances between different components and ENF/Mediterrenean component is absolutely closer to SW Asian component, which in turn closest to Basal Eurasian.
    Sorry but you don't make any sense. How can their CHG be meaningless when it's 3x times higher than neolithic ? The Caucasoid ancestry in South Asia too, is mainly CHG. So it's correct to say that middle easterners are mainly composed of near eastern/Red Sea and CHG/West Asian components. What makes North Caucasians different than Arabs, Levantines and Iranians it their high steppe input with lot lower near eastern scores.

    CHG is highly basal related. Because in case it was not like you claim, it means neolithic is real basal admixture which would make it European and MENA's would have major source of their ancestry from different source. And that unlikely.
    Where do you think Yamnaya dark complexion comes from ? It isn't from Eastern Hunter Gatherers...
    Last edited by Jana; 05-10-2017 at 11:17 PM.

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    I will create a thread: Russian Domain and Its Genetic Influence In Karachay.

    According I discovered the Karachay-Cherkess Republic even had a half russian, half karachay president.

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    This thread is based on assumptions. It is not easy to determine the genetic contribution of Moors without Moorish Dna samples from that period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hannibal Barca View Post
    This thread is based on assumptions. It is not easy to determine the genetic contribution of Moors without Moorish Dna samples from that period.
    Eventually some DNA testing will be done on people living from that period. I do know they have dug up cemeteries of Muslims from different periods in Iberia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Frank Grimes View Post
    Eventually some DNA testing will be done on people living from that period. I do know they have dug up cemeteries of Muslims from different periods in Iberia.
    Great news.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Frank Grimes View Post
    Eventually some DNA testing will be done on people living from that period. I do know they have dug up cemeteries of Muslims from different periods in Iberia.
    Depends on who was in those cemeteries...Muslims brought Slavs to Iberia for eg.

    To give an analogy...if 500 years from now, they escavated a Dubai cemetery, they might think the Persian Gulf was primarily inhabited by Filipinos, Indians and Bangladeshis

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ibericus View Post
    They are part of Spain, but they are not ethnic spaniards. Their north-african is not because of "moors" but because of the indigenous Guanches,



    No, they didn't. Half of Spain was already re-conquered after 300 years. Only Granda lasted 8 centuries (and they are not more north-african admixed than rest of Spain).
    I beg to differ. The vast majority of DNA in Canarians is Iberian. So we are ethnically Spanish, but with extra North African. Also, 1/3 of Canarians have no Guanche ancestors and are completely Iberian. The majority of the other 2/3 are predominantly Iberian. I myself am 90%. Besides, although not all Iberians have North African DNA, most have a few percent and it even gets as high as 7% in western Spain. I have 10%. So I have 3% more than a western Spaniard. Not much difference genetically between myself and a western Spaniard and we would plot near each other.

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    Moors left many toponyms in Iberia. There's no reason why they didn't leave some DNA. The Inquisition had no racist considerations, when a Moor was sincerely converted to Christianity, his soul was blessed.

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