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Thread: Arabic and Germanic toponyms in the Iberian peninsula

  1. #51
    Veteran Member Autrigón's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Longobarda View Post
    المجريط al-Maǧrīṭ. Madrid, Spain
    أشبيليّة ʼIšbīliyyaḧ. Seville, Spain
    برغش Burġuš. Burgos, Spain
    البسيط al-Basīṭ. Albacete, Spain
    بلنسيّة Balansiyyaḧ. Valencia, Spain
    بطليوس Baṭalyaws. Badajoz, Spain
    بنبلونة Banbalūnaḧ. Pamplona, Spain
    تيروال Tīrwāl. Teruel, Spain
    تطيلة Tuṭīlaḧ. Tudela, Navarre, Spain
    جرندة Ǧarundaḧ. Girona, Spain
    جيّان Ǧayyān. Jaén, Spain
    سرقسطة Saraqusṭaḧ. Zaragoza, Spain
    سمّورة Sammūraḧ. Zamora, Spain
    شانت ياقوب Šānt Yāqūb. Santiago de Compostela, Spain
    صخرة بلاي Ṣaḫraḧ Bilāy. Covadonga, Spain
    طرّاكونة Ṭarrākūnaḧ. Tarragona, Spain
    طرسونة Ṭarasūnaḧ. Tarazona, Spain
    طرطوشة Ṭurṭūšaḧ. Tortosa, Spain
    طريفة Ṭarīfaḧ. Tarifa, Spain
    طلبيرة Ṭalabayraḧ. Talavera de la Reina, Spain
    طليطلة Ṭulayṭulaḧ. Toledo, Spain
    غرناطة Ġarnāṭaḧ. Granada, Spain
    قادس Qādis. Cádiz, Spain
    قرطاجنة الحلفاء Qarṭāǧannaḧ al-Ḥalfāʼ. Cartagena, Spain
    قرطبه Qurṭubaḧ. Córdoba, Spain
    قرمونة Qarmūnaḧ. Carmona, Spain
    قلعة أيوب Qalʻaḧ ʼAyyūb. Calatayud, Spain
    قلهرة Qalahurraḧ. Calahorra, Spain
    قونكة Qūnkaḧ. Cuenca, Spain
    لاردة Lāridaḧ. Lleida, Spain
    القنت al-Laqant. Alicante, Spain
    لورقة Lawraqaḧ. Lorca, Spain
    ليّون Liyyūn. León, Spain
    ماردة Māridaḧ. Mérida, Spain
    مالقة Mālaqaḧ. Málaga, Spain
    مدينة شدونة Madīnaẗ Šadūnaḧ. Medina-Sidonia, Spain
    مرسيّة Mursiyyaḧ. Murcia, Spain
    المريّة al-Mariyyaḧ. Almería, Spain
    ناجرة Nāǧiraḧ. Nájera, Spain
    وادي الحجارة Wādī al-Ḥejāraḧ. Guadalajara, Spain
    Not exactly,big mistake. The muslims only traduced the previous names to their language. The origin of the vast majority of toponyms in Spain are from celtiberian tribes and Romans (Latin) origin. For example the origin of "Toledo" is "Toletum" (Latin), Madrid was "Matrice" (Latin),"Merida" was "Emerita Augusta" (Latin), "Castro" (Celtiberian), or even andalusian Cities of the deep south like "Granada" was "Granatum" (Latin), etc, etc ,etc.
    Why the people always forget the Roman Empire?

    In spanish for example we traduce "London" and we say "Londres", in that way London is of spanish origin?...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Longobarda View Post
    The fact is that arabs were in Spain during 800 years. All the others much less.
    Iberia had two cultural semitic domination, carthagineans also ruled Iberia, but Iberia ended latin cuturally. How much did romans rule Iberia? And remember the language of "moor" Iberia was mozarabic, late latin with arabic intrusions.

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    Veteran Member Longobarda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Autrigón View Post
    Not exactly,big mistake. The muslims only traduced the previous names to their language. The origin of the vast majority of toponyms in Spain are from celtiberian tribes and Romans (Latin) origin. For example the origin of "Toledo" is "Toletum" (Latin), Madrid was "Matrice" (Latin),"Merida" was "Emerita Augusta" (Latin), "Castro" (Celtiberian), or even andalusian Cities of the deep south like "Granada" was "Granatum" (Latin), etc, etc ,etc.
    Why the people always forget the Roman Empire?

    In spanish for example we traduce "London" and we say "Londres", in that way London is of spanish origin?...
    Please read ALL my comments. You will see that I have explained why and how.

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    Veteran Member Longobarda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacrificed Ram View Post
    Iberia had two cultural semitic domination, carthagineans also ruled Iberia, but Iberia ended latin cuturally. How much did romans rule Iberia? And remember the language of "moor" Iberia was mozarabic, late latin with arabic intrusions.
    The mozarabs were either the cristians that adopted arab Language and customs or arabs that converted to christianity.

    "These Mozarabs of Muslim origin, who converted en masse at the end of the 11th century, many of them Muladi (ethnic Iberians previously converted to Islam), are totally distinct from the Mudéjars and Moriscos who converted gradually to Christianity between the 12th and 17th centuries. Some Mozarabs were even Conversos Sephardi Jews who likewise became part of the Mozarabic milieu."

    As I said above, the arabs were those who occupied spain more time (800 years) than all the other populations. Infact many surnames in Spain keep the arab or sephardic origin like "Almunia" or "Rubalcaba" or "Medina" etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Longobarda View Post
    The mozarabs were either the cristians that adopted arab Language and customs or arabs that converted to christianity.

    "These Mozarabs of Muslim origin, who converted en masse at the end of the 11th century, many of them Muladi (ethnic Iberians previously converted to Islam), are totally distinct from the Mudéjars and Moriscos who converted gradually to Christianity between the 12th and 17th centuries. Some Mozarabs were even Conversos Sephardi Jews who likewise became part of the Mozarabic milieu."

    As I said above, the arabs were those who occupied spain more time (800 years) than all the other populations. Infact many surnames in Spain keep the arab or sephardic origin like "Almunia" or "Rubalcaba" or "Medina" etc.
    I love jokes, but we need remember the "moors" that invaded Iberia were most arabized north african romans, was to short time for them be fully arabized when of iberian invasion, they still carried the latin essence into them. And who can guarantee if some name is of phoenician, carthaginean or arab origin?

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    Veteran Member Token's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Longobarda View Post
    Yes it is and spaniards KNOW PERFECTLY. Madrid in origin was an arabian fortress. I did not take a translator from arabic, I found this list in WIKIPEDIA
    You are not a linguist so shut your mouth. It's not certain if Madrid comes from Arabic, it's just one of three different hypothesis. Madrid could have come from the Latin matrix or from a hypothetical Celtic *mageto (derived from magos 'field', Q-Celtic mag) ritu (P-Celtic rhyd-rit). Mageto could have come from P-Celtic (going by the Gaulish evidences that we have) matu 'bear', explaining why the Romans called it Ursalia.

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    Veteran Member Longobarda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacrificed Ram View Post
    I love jokes, but we need remember the "moors" that invaded Iberia were most arabized north african romans, was to short time for them be fully arabized when of iberian invasion, they still carried the latin essence into them. And who can guarantee if some name is of phoenician, carthaginean or arab origin?
    Do you think that phoenician (and punic) Language can be the same as arab Language?

    The moors who invade iberia were not all North africans. Umayyads from Damasco (Syria)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umayya...st_of_Hispania



    Followed by Taifa principality

    The origins of the taifas must be sought in the administrative division of the Umayyad Caliphate of Córdoba, as well in the ethnic division of the elite of this state, divided among Arabs, the more numerous Berbers, Iberian Muslims (known as Muladíes – a significant majority) and the Eastern European former slaves.



    Followed by the Almoravid dinasty (Berbers)

    The dynasty originated among the Lamtuna and the Gudala, nomadic Berber tribes of the Sahara, traversing the territory between the Draa, the Niger, and the Senegal rivers. So NO african romans.

    Followed by Almohad Caliphate (Moroccans)

    The Almohad movement was founded by Ibn Tumart among the Berber Masmuda tribes of southern Morocco. Around 1120, the Almohads first established a Berber state in Tinmel in the Atlas Mountains.

    No african romans at all

    Followed by third Taifa's period

    Followed by Reign of Granada

    Followed by Nasrid dinasty

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    Veteran Member Longobarda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Token View Post
    You are not a linguist so shut your mouth. It's not certain if Madrid comes from Arabic, it's just one of three different hypothesis. Madrid could have come from the Latin matrix or from a hypothetical Celtic *mageto (derived from magos 'field', Q-Celtic mag) ritu (P-Celtic rhyd-rit). Mageto could have come from P-Celtic (going by the Gaulish evidences that we have) matu 'bear', explaining why the Romans called it Ursalia.
    I suppose you are (a linguist). But no, you are just a lier.

    Majrīṭ (AFI [madʒriːtˁ]) Is the first documented reference to the city. It is recorded in Andalusian Arabic during the al-Andalus. The name Magerit ([madʒeˈɾit]) was retained in Medieval Spanish. The most ancient recorded name of the city "Magerit" (for *Materit or *Mageterit?) comes from the name of a fortress built on the Manzanares River in the 9th century AD, and means "Place of abundant water" in Arabic.

    A wider number of theories have been formulated on possible earlier origins.According to legend, Madrid was founded by Ocno Bianor (son of King Tyrrhenius of Tuscany and Mantua) and was named "Metragirta" or "Mantua Carpetana". Others contend that the original name of the city was "Ursaria" ("land of bears" in Latin), because of the many bears that were to be found in the nearby forests, which, together with the strawberry tree (Spanish madroño), have been the emblem of the city since the Middle Ages.[28]
    A French expert in ancient Gaulish proposed a Celtic place-name from ritu- 'ford' (Old Welsh rit, Welsh rhyd, Old Breton rit, Old Northern French roy) and a first element, that is not clearly identified *mageto derivation of magos 'field, plain' (Old Irish mag 'field', Breton ma 'place'), or matu 'bear', that could explain the Latin translation Ursalia.[29]
    Nevertheless, it is also speculated that the origin of the current name of the city comes from the 2nd century BC. The Roman Empire established a settlement on the banks of the Manzanares river. The name of this first village was "Matrice" (a reference to the river that crossed the settlement). Following the invasions carried out by the Germanic Sueves and Vandals, as well as the Sarmatic Alans during the 5th century AD, the Roman Empire no longer had the military presence required to defend its territories on the Iberian Peninsula, and as a consequence, these territories were soon occupied by the Vandals, who were in turn dispelled by the Visigoths, who then ruled Hispania in the name of the Roman emperor, also taking control of "Matrice". In the 8th century, the Islamic conquest of the Iberian Peninsula saw the name changed to "Mayrit", from the Arabic term ميرا Mayra[citation needed] (referencing water as a 'tree' or 'giver of life') and the Ibero-Roman suffix it that means 'place'. The modern "Madrid" evolved from the Mozarabic "Matrit", which is still in the Madrilenian gentilic.[30]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Longobarda View Post
    Yes it is and spaniards KNOW PERFECTLY. Madrid in origin was an arabian fortress. I did not take a translator from arabic, I found this list in WIKIPEDIA
    Ah... in Wikipedia...

    Madrid comes from Matrice, you liar. Arabs called Magerit to Matrice. That does not mean that Madrid comes from Arabic, only a retard would claim such thing

    Quote Originally Posted by Nabatea1 View Post
    Proud of my ancestors legacy in which they brought civilization to Iberia
    Your ancestors did not bring any civilization to Iberia but the opposite, and fortunately nothing of that was left here

    Quote Originally Posted by Longobarda View Post
    المجريط al-Maǧrīṭ. Madrid, Spain
    أشبيليّة ʼIšbīliyyaḧ. Seville, Spain
    برغش Burġuš. Burgos, Spain
    البسيط al-Basīṭ. Albacete, Spain
    بلنسيّة Balansiyyaḧ. Valencia, Spain
    بطليوس Baṭalyaws. Badajoz, Spain
    بنبلونة Banbalūnaḧ. Pamplona, Spain
    تيروال Tīrwāl. Teruel, Spain
    تطيلة Tuṭīlaḧ. Tudela, Navarre, Spain
    جرندة Ǧarundaḧ. Girona, Spain
    جيّان Ǧayyān. Jaén, Spain
    سرقسطة Saraqusṭaḧ. Zaragoza, Spain
    سمّورة Sammūraḧ. Zamora, Spain
    شانت ياقوب Šānt Yāqūb. Santiago de Compostela, Spain
    صخرة بلاي Ṣaḫraḧ Bilāy. Covadonga, Spain
    طرّاكونة Ṭarrākūnaḧ. Tarragona, Spain
    طرسونة Ṭarasūnaḧ. Tarazona, Spain
    طرطوشة Ṭurṭūšaḧ. Tortosa, Spain
    طريفة Ṭarīfaḧ. Tarifa, Spain
    طلبيرة Ṭalabayraḧ. Talavera de la Reina, Spain
    طليطلة Ṭulayṭulaḧ. Toledo, Spain
    غرناطة Ġarnāṭaḧ. Granada, Spain
    قادس Qādis. Cádiz, Spain
    قرطاجنة الحلفاء Qarṭāǧannaḧ al-Ḥalfāʼ. Cartagena, Spain
    قرطبه Qurṭubaḧ. Córdoba, Spain
    قرمونة Qarmūnaḧ. Carmona, Spain
    قلعة أيوب Qalʻaḧ ʼAyyūb. Calatayud, Spain
    قلهرة Qalahurraḧ. Calahorra, Spain
    قونكة Qūnkaḧ. Cuenca, Spain
    لاردة Lāridaḧ. Lleida, Spain
    القنت al-Laqant. Alicante, Spain
    لورقة Lawraqaḧ. Lorca, Spain
    ليّون Liyyūn. León, Spain
    ماردة Māridaḧ. Mérida, Spain
    مالقة Mālaqaḧ. Málaga, Spain
    مدينة شدونة Madīnaẗ Šadūnaḧ. Medina-Sidonia, Spain
    مرسيّة Mursiyyaḧ. Murcia, Spain
    المريّة al-Mariyyaḧ. Almería, Spain
    ناجرة Nāǧiraḧ. Nájera, Spain
    وادي الحجارة Wādī al-Ḥejāraḧ. Guadalajara, Spain
    Excuse me, what does that list pretend to show?? are you claiming that León, Burgos, Madrid, Cádiz or Albacete, Pamplona, Toledo or Zaragoza come from Arabic??

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    Veteran Member Longobarda's Avatar
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    Cristiano Viejo, antes de enojarte leete todos los posts que he escrito ANTES. Veràs como hay explicacion para todo.

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