Southern Spanish?

[Potentia]

So, after reading some older posts, I stumbled across a theory that Sikeliot put out there.

The original southern Spanish population finds its descendants in modern North Africans, and modern southern Spanish are mostly transplants from the north, as the original southerners were largely Arabized and then expelled to North Africa.

I, myself, am inclined to actually agree with this theory. As, it would explain the homogeneity of the current Spanish Population.

However, I feel as though that this theory could be expanded. In my opinion, I think that Latin Americans that have Colonial Ancestry are descended from these "original" Southern Spaniards. This would explain why a good amount of Latin Americans have different Caucasian Components than the Modern Spaniards.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

I don't agree with Sikeliot's belief. All of al-Andalusia except Granada and coastal areas were conquered in the 13th century, The Reconquista pretty much stopped in the 1250s and wasn't picked up again until the 1480s. We know Granada had a high population density but we also know many Muslims didn't migrate to Granada. We also know that because so much land was taken over in such a short period of time particular noble families received large tracts of land latifundia). This takes away an incentive to head south to settle new land if you're going to be a tenant of a larger land owner and without the rights that northerners typically had. The depopulation of Andalusia was an issue but when you have an area that once had a larger population with now a smaller population that smaller population is going to have a lot of fucking kids (think American frontier society) because working hands are needed. We also know that the Christians that helped repopulated Andalusia were from the settled areas of the northern part of Andalusia that spurred the population growth, which goes back to my point about having many children after there is a depopulation. It wasn't a complete depopulation of the area because I said not all Muslims left.

So basically my belief (which is the correct belief based what we know of the demographics) is Andalusians are a blend of Castillians who settled in the northern part of Andalusia and later had a burst in population growth and Muslims who had not left for Granada and later converted to Christianity.

My tired and so I may not have written clearly. However, I post some quotes/sources to support my belief at some point.

[Potentia]

I don't agree with Sikeliot's belief. All of al-Andalusia except Granada and coastal areas were conquered in the 13th century, The Reconquista pretty much stopped in the 1250s and wasn't picked up again until the 1480s. We know Granada had a high population density but we also know many Muslims didn't migrate to Granada. We also know that because so much land was taken over in such a short period of time particular noble families received large tracts of land latifundia). This takes away an incentive to head south to settle new land if you're going to be a tenant of a larger land owner and without the rights that northerners typically had. The depopulation of Andalusia was an issue but when you have an area that once had a larger population with now a smaller population that smaller population is going to have a lot of fucking kids (think American frontier society) because working hands are needed. We also know that the Christians that helped repopulated Andalusia were from the settled areas of the northern part of Andalusia that spurred the population growth, which goes back to my point about having many children after there is a depopulation. It wasn't a complete depopulation of the area because I said not all Muslims left.

So basically my belief (which is the correct belief based what we know of the demographics) is Andalusians are a blend of Castillians who settled in the northern part of Andalusia and later had a burst in population growth and Muslims who had not left for Granada and later converted to Christianity.

My tired and so I may not have written clearly. However, I post some quotes/sources to support my belief at some point.

Ah, I see.

So, what you're saying is that the Andalusians are mostly descended from Northern Castilians, who mixed with the existing Muslim Population of Southern Spain? However, if this were true, what could explain the homogeneity of the peoples of the Iberian Peninsula?

[RN97]

Spaniards are not homogeneous.

[Autrigón]

So, after reading some older posts, I stumbled across a theory that Sikeliot put out there.



I, myself, am inclined to actually agree with this theory. As, it would explain the homogeneity of the current Spanish Population.

However, I feel as though that this theory could be expanded. In my opinion, I think that Latin Americans that have Colonial Ancestry are descended from these "original" Southern Spaniards. This would explain why a good amount of Latin Americans have different Caucasian Components than the Modern Spaniards.

Yes, I'm more or less agree. The reconquest of Southern Spain was in some aspects similar that the conquest of the far West in United States...large lands empty of people and a necessity of repopulate the new reconquest territories with soldiers and their families from the north of Iberia. People who could establish and defend the frontiers.

[Potentia]

Spaniards are not homogeneous.

They are very similar, genetically.

[caviezel]

my parents went to visit Cordoba in 2014 and I called my mother to ask her how the people looked like there and she was like 'I can't tell because there were too many strangers and tourists'. It's quite telling that she had more sense than the majority of TA users who go places and pretend to judge the population as it was only locals.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Ah, I see.

So, what you're saying is that the Andalusians are mostly descended from Northern Castilians, who mixed with the existing Muslim Population of Southern Spain? However, if this were true, what could explain the homogeneity of the peoples of the Iberian Peninsula?

Those Muslims were no different than their Christian counterparts except for cultural differences.

The impact of north Africans on the Iberian peninsula is mostly pre-Moorish invasion. The highest levels of North African tend to be in the north-West where the Moorish presence lasted no more than a few decades and only along the foothills, while areas that had centuries of Moorish rule have less. The NA is highest in the western part of Iberia and declines as you move east. That doesn't fit with what one would expect with the Moorish occupation but it does make sense for an ancient population movement.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

my parents went to visit Cordoba in 2014 and I called my mother to ask her how the people looked like there and she was like 'I can't tell because there were too many strangers and tourists'. It's quite telling that she had more sense than the majority of TA users who go places and pretend to judge the population as it was only locals.

That's an odd question to ask your mom while she's on vacation. If I asked my mother the same question she would say she was too busy looking at how jacked up are the prices to pay attention to what people look like and then go on about the most egregious example.

[Kriptc06]

can you please cite the source of this article, thanks