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Thread: Sicilians are paternally Balkanites.

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    According to Eupedia, Sicily has a low amount of R1a-Z93 but on the map I posted it seems to be the most dominant clade of R1a.
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    The Albanians, these tigers of mountain wars ... have as their religion rebellion. Even their worst warrior is one of the strongest and bravest on the battle-field, just as if he was a knight on the legendary horse. But he has no horse, nor proper weapons for battle. Instead of the horse, he has a lance which strikes as lightning, he has spears who's points are full of posion as the sting of hornets, he has also a wooden bow with some arrows. Furthermore, he is stronger than iron ...

    - Ibn Kemal, Historian of the Turkish court during Skanderbeg's war against the Turks.

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    Then it is probably from Hellenized West Asians who came to Sicily when it was Byzantine. Probably Armenians, Persians, etc.

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    23andme: 100% Balkan https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...3andme-results

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    Eurogenes K36 oracle: 50.64% Albania_North+ 49.36% Kosovo. Population distance: 1) 1.27 Northern Albania&Kosovo

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    The Albanians, these tigers of mountain wars ... have as their religion rebellion. Even their worst warrior is one of the strongest and bravest on the battle-field, just as if he was a knight on the legendary horse. But he has no horse, nor proper weapons for battle. Instead of the horse, he has a lance which strikes as lightning, he has spears who's points are full of posion as the sting of hornets, he has also a wooden bow with some arrows. Furthermore, he is stronger than iron ...

    - Ibn Kemal, Historian of the Turkish court during Skanderbeg's war against the Turks.

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    It is the ancient Greeks who had the biggest impact on the genetic make-up of southern Italy. From the 8th century BCE the Greeks set up colonies all along the coasts of Campania, Calabria, Basilicata, southern Apulia, and Sicily (except the western tip) in what would become known as Magna Graecia. Their genetic signature are essentially haplogroups J2 (18-30%) and E1b1b (15-25%), but the ancient Greeks also carried some R1b-M269/L23 (5-10%), G2a (3-8%), T (1-6%), I2a1b (1-5%), R1a (1-3%), and J1 (1-2%). It is very clear on the haplogroup maps that the areas in central and southern Italy furthest from the coast and from ancient Greek colonies, such as Abruzzo, Molise and the southern Apennines correspond to the highest percentages of haplogroups G2a, J1 and T in Italy, but also the lowest frequency of E1b1b and J2 in the southern half of Italy. There is no better way to contrast the Neolithic population of Italy with the ancient Greek colonists.

    The Greeks also colonised Liguria and the French Riviera, where they founded Genoa, Nice (which was an Italian city until 1860) and Marseille. The Phoenicians and Cartaginians also kept bases in Liguria at some point. Modern Ligurians have the highest percentage of haplogroup E1b1b outside southern Italy (almost entirely the Greek E-V13), but also the highest level of G2a and J1 outside the Apennines, which probably means that this mountainous region also served as a shelter to Neolithic populations during the Italic invasions. R1b makes up about half of Ligurian lineages, among which 22% belong to the U152 subclade, 20% to P312 (the highest level in Italy), 6% to L23, and 2% to L21. The ancient Ligures spoke a language intermediary between Celtic (P312, L21) and Italic (U152) families, and their Y-DNA is split exactly in half between Italic and Celtic. The 6% of L23 are probably of Greek origin. Overall about one third of the modern Ligurian lineages could be of Greek origin.
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    The Albanians, these tigers of mountain wars ... have as their religion rebellion. Even their worst warrior is one of the strongest and bravest on the battle-field, just as if he was a knight on the legendary horse. But he has no horse, nor proper weapons for battle. Instead of the horse, he has a lance which strikes as lightning, he has spears who's points are full of posion as the sting of hornets, he has also a wooden bow with some arrows. Furthermore, he is stronger than iron ...

    - Ibn Kemal, Historian of the Turkish court during Skanderbeg's war against the Turks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    Then it is probably from Hellenized West Asians who came to Sicily when it was Byzantine. Probably Armenians, Persians, etc.
    More likely Hellenized Thracians and Scythians.. Bulgaria and Romania today have a very diverse R1a but none to the "young" group.
    “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” Eph. 6:12

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    Between 1200 and 539 BCE the Phoenicians built a vast commercial empire from their Levantine homeland along the southern Mediterranean as far as Iberia. In Italy they had colonies in western Sicily and southern and western Sardinia. Based on the haplogroups found in modern Lebanon and in their former colonies, the Phoenicians seem to have carried a mixture of haplogroup J2, J1, E1b1b, G, R1b-M269/L23, T, L, R1b-V88, R2 and Q, roughly in that order of frequency. By comparing Sardinian and Lebanese DNA, it can be estimated that the Sardinians have inherited between 16% and 24% of their Y-DNA from the Phoenicians (see details).
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    The Albanians, these tigers of mountain wars ... have as their religion rebellion. Even their worst warrior is one of the strongest and bravest on the battle-field, just as if he was a knight on the legendary horse. But he has no horse, nor proper weapons for battle. Instead of the horse, he has a lance which strikes as lightning, he has spears who's points are full of posion as the sting of hornets, he has also a wooden bow with some arrows. Furthermore, he is stronger than iron ...

    - Ibn Kemal, Historian of the Turkish court during Skanderbeg's war against the Turks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    Trapani and Palermo should be flipped here. Trapani is very predominantly R1b, Palermo is more J2. Also no way is Ragusa mostly I1, they are more E1b.

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    Quote Originally Posted by catgeorge View Post
    More likely Hellenized Thracians and Scythians.. Bulgaria and Romania today have a very diverse R1a but none to the "young" group.
    A Thracian was found to be R1a-Z93 so maybe
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    The Albanians, these tigers of mountain wars ... have as their religion rebellion. Even their worst warrior is one of the strongest and bravest on the battle-field, just as if he was a knight on the legendary horse. But he has no horse, nor proper weapons for battle. Instead of the horse, he has a lance which strikes as lightning, he has spears who's points are full of posion as the sting of hornets, he has also a wooden bow with some arrows. Furthermore, he is stronger than iron ...

    - Ibn Kemal, Historian of the Turkish court during Skanderbeg's war against the Turks.

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    the three haplogroups associated with the Kura-Araxes culture. Although little data is available at present about deep clades in Crete or Aegean Greece, the parts of Italy that were colonised by Ionic and Doric Greeks, notably Sicily, Calabria and Basilicata, possess substantial percentages of typically Caucasian haplogroups, such as G2a-L297, J1-Z1828 and J2a-L581, as well as considerable levels of Middle Eastern and Caucasian autosomal admixture by European standards. In fact, it seems that many branches of J2a (e.g. M319, Z7671, F3133, Z6046, L581) may have expanded from the South Caucasus from the Chalcolithic onwards. The presence of these haplogroups and admixtures in southern Italy almost certainly represent Kura-Araxes ancestry inherited from Minoan Greeks from the Aegean islands.
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    The Albanians, these tigers of mountain wars ... have as their religion rebellion. Even their worst warrior is one of the strongest and bravest on the battle-field, just as if he was a knight on the legendary horse. But he has no horse, nor proper weapons for battle. Instead of the horse, he has a lance which strikes as lightning, he has spears who's points are full of posion as the sting of hornets, he has also a wooden bow with some arrows. Furthermore, he is stronger than iron ...

    - Ibn Kemal, Historian of the Turkish court during Skanderbeg's war against the Turks.

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    J2a from Romans:
    Z435 was formed about 3,600 years ago and has a TMRCA of only 3,100 years (± 300 years). The latter corresponds roughly to the timing of the invasion of Italian peninsula by Italic tribes from the Alps. Z435 has numerous subclades of its own, and most have been identified in central Italy. This could either mean that Z435 was one of the founding Italic lineages, or that it was already in Italy and was assimilated by the Italic tribes. The PF5456 subclade is barely 2500 years old, and would have emerged and propagated after the founding of Rome. Outside Italy, it is now found in such varied places as Portugal, Spain, France, Britain, Belgium, southern Germany, Austria, Bulgaria, Tunisia or Lebanon, all regions colonised by the Romans. Z2177, another subclade of Z435, is a bit under 3,000 years old. It has various subclades of its own which are scattered today around Italy (northern Italy, Tuscany, Latium, Sicily, Sardinia) and in places like Switzerland, south-west Germany, Britain, Spain, Romania, Greece, Turkey and Syria - also all these regions were part of the Roman Empire. Italy has by far the highest concentration of Z2177 of any country.
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    The Albanians, these tigers of mountain wars ... have as their religion rebellion. Even their worst warrior is one of the strongest and bravest on the battle-field, just as if he was a knight on the legendary horse. But he has no horse, nor proper weapons for battle. Instead of the horse, he has a lance which strikes as lightning, he has spears who's points are full of posion as the sting of hornets, he has also a wooden bow with some arrows. Furthermore, he is stronger than iron ...

    - Ibn Kemal, Historian of the Turkish court during Skanderbeg's war against the Turks.

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