Page 1 of 11 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 102

Thread: Romance / Latin influence on England?

  1. #1
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Last Online
    10-05-2014 @ 02:26 PM
    Ethnicity
    European
    Country
    European Union
    Gender
    Posts
    9,734
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,296
    Given: 3,160

    0 Not allowed!

    Default Romance / Latin influence on England?

    What exactly is the nature of Romance / Latin influence on England? I know we are a people mainly composed from Germanic and Celtic tribes, but our culture is somewhere between Germanic, Celtic and Romance / Latin, it seems to borrow a lot from all of them.

    The English language now has more Romance words than it does Germanic by far, to be honest I don't know how to feel about that - either complacent with it or sad about it
    English has a great deal of French (including Anglo-Nroman) and Latin words, but I've read that many of these are either archaic or fairly defunct and that the core few thousand words are usually Germanic.


    But besides language is English culture just Germanic+Celtic or is there a Latin / Romance influence on other areas of English society as well.
    The Normans aren't seen very favourably by a lot of people here, but what were the positive things they did?

  2. #2
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Last Online
    09-07-2011 @ 06:46 PM
    Meta-Ethnicity
    -
    Ethnicity
    -
    Ancestry
    Ireland, England
    Religion
    Roman Catholic
    Gender
    Posts
    1,647
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 11
    Given: 0

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by celtabria View Post
    What exactly is the nature of Romance / Latin influence on England? I know we are a people mainly composed from Germanic and Celtic tribes, but our culture is somewhere between Germanic, Celtic and Romance / Latin, it seems to borrow a lot from all of them.

    The English language now has more Romance words than it does Germanic by far, to be honest I don't know how to feel about that - either complacent with it or sad about it
    I think the 100 most used words are Germanic, and the vast majority of the 1000 most used words. But I don't think Romance/French influence is something to lament at all. Besides, a bit of Anglish'll sort you right out.

    But besides language is English culture just Germanic+Celtic or is there a Latin / Romance influence on other areas of English society as well.
    Hmm...I can't think of real Latin/Romance/Norman influence on English society, outside of law.

    The Normans aren't seen very favourably by a lot of people here
    At least they weren't Frenchman proper. They just spoke the langue d'omosex.

    but what were the positive things they did?
    I can't think of anything good or bad as such for the English in the long run, but for the Irish, the arrival of the Normans kicks off the shitstorm that continues today.

  3. #3
    My Countship is not of this world Comte Arnau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Online
    06-18-2015 @ 02:38 AM
    Location
    Catalan Nation
    Meta-Ethnicity
    European (Romanic)
    Ethnicity
    Catalan
    Ancestry
    Pyrenean
    Country
    European Union
    Region
    Catalunya
    Taxonomy
    W/S Europid
    Politics
    Sovereigntism
    Religion
    Cult to Pyrene
    Gender
    Posts
    10,810
    Blog Entries
    3
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 2,755
    Given: 1,407

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by celtabria View Post
    What exactly is the nature of Romance / Latin influence on England? I know we are a people mainly composed from Germanic and Celtic tribes, but our culture is somewhere between Germanic, Celtic and Romance / Latin, it seems to borrow a lot from all of them.

    The English language now has more Romance words than it does Germanic by far, to be honest I don't know how to feel about that - either complacent with it or sad about it
    English has a great deal of French (including Anglo-Nroman) and Latin words, but I've read that many of these are either archaic or fairly defunct and that the core few thousand words are usually Germanic.

    But besides language is English culture just Germanic+Celtic or is there a Latin / Romance influence on other areas of English society as well.
    The Normans aren't seen very favourably by a lot of people here, but what were the positive things they did?
    Archaic or defunct? Get rid of all the words I marked in black and say the same.
    < La Catalogne peut se passer de l'univers entier, et ses voisins ne peuvent se passer d'elle. > Voltaire

  4. #4
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Last Online
    10-05-2014 @ 02:26 PM
    Ethnicity
    European
    Country
    European Union
    Gender
    Posts
    9,734
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,296
    Given: 3,160

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibex View Post
    Archaic or defunct? Get rid of all the words I marked in black and say the same.
    Ah, ta for pointing that out..... I'll get back to you on that

  5. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Last Online
    04-28-2012 @ 04:02 PM
    Location
    the Open Road...
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Celto-Germanic
    Ethnicity
    English
    Ancestry
    Lancashire, Bernicia, Munster, Mercia etc.
    Country
    England
    Region
    Devon
    Taxonomy
    Manchester Man
    Politics
    Nationalist
    Religion
    British
    Age
    31
    Gender
    Posts
    7,419
    Blog Entries
    1
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 118
    Given: 0

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by celtabria View Post
    What exactly is the nature of Romance / Latin influence on England? I know we are a people mainly composed from Germanic and Celtic tribes, but our culture is somewhere between Germanic, Celtic and Romance / Latin, it seems to borrow a lot from all of them.
    Before the Normans came, we lived a bit detached. THey certainly brought us more completely into a wider Europe. All sorts of technical, educational and cultural advances were brought over. They were excellent masons, if nothing else. It all would have come eventually, but they increased the tempo.
    The English language now has more Romance words than it does Germanic by far, to be honest I don't know how to feel about that - either complacent with it or sad about it
    English has a great deal of French (including Anglo-Nroman) and Latin words, but I've read that many of these are either archaic or fairly defunct and that the core few thousand words are usually Germanic.
    That's utter bullshit, don't worry about it.

    Under French and Latin there, you've got all sorts of words that you've never used in your life, except in a physics lesson at school, or in a doctor's surgery. I judge something's Englishness by ascertaining whether my grandmother would be comfortable using it.
    But besides language is English culture just Germanic+Celtic or is there a Latin / Romance influence on other areas of English society as well.
    The Normans aren't seen very favourably by a lot of people here, but what were the positive things they did?
    Society.. what is that? A lot of our administration and 'justice' was foreshadowed in the pre-Norman period. Much they brought with them has since passed away, but what we have now is obviously built on it. They formed a new upper class, that's the important thing, and so much that we associate with 'higher culture' has a Norman tint to it still.

    I suppose you might say too, that the 'Romance' thing is near enough pan-European now. We share these borrowings with words borrowed into the Slavonic languages too, for instance.

  6. #6
    My Countship is not of this world Comte Arnau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Online
    06-18-2015 @ 02:38 AM
    Location
    Catalan Nation
    Meta-Ethnicity
    European (Romanic)
    Ethnicity
    Catalan
    Ancestry
    Pyrenean
    Country
    European Union
    Region
    Catalunya
    Taxonomy
    W/S Europid
    Politics
    Sovereigntism
    Religion
    Cult to Pyrene
    Gender
    Posts
    10,810
    Blog Entries
    3
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 2,755
    Given: 1,407

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Osweo View Post
    That's utter bullshit, don't worry about it.

    Under French and Latin there, you've got all sorts of words that you've never used in your life, except in a physics lesson at school, or in a doctor's surgery.
    Yeah. Flower, change, very, branch, aunt, pocket, hour, catch, mountain, brave, close, drug, apron, beauty, car, eagle, front, hospital... Who does ever use these words?

    If English had only Latinisms, then the situation wouldn't be different from that of many other languages of Europe. But the strong input of Old French changed its façade more deeply, even if the main beam remained Germanic.
    < La Catalogne peut se passer de l'univers entier, et ses voisins ne peuvent se passer d'elle. > Voltaire

  7. #7
    Veteran Member Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    antonio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Online
    10-07-2014 @ 05:52 AM
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Romance
    Ethnicity
    HispanoRoman-IberoAquitanian-Suevian
    Country
    Spain
    Politics
    Autocrat and Antiglobalization Traditionalist
    Religion
    Roman-Catholic
    Gender
    Posts
    2,989
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 53
    Given: 29

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Not only there's a massive lexical evidence. Syntactic paralelisms between English and a modern Romance language (like Spanish) are astonishing. Altough it's no surprise a English speaker without deep knowledge of no Romance lacks that similarity, it's really bizarre that people like an almost bilingual English-Spanish female coworker of mine did not get it when I first exposed my thinkings on it almost 10 years ago. Ask Osweo for further info, I bet he already experienced it.

    Another evidence would be the amount of Spanish people with English skills which would like us to learn German and compare it with the few actually learning it. Besides phrases like "Ich been ein Berliner" would, i use to find majority of German text almost clueless from English.

  8. #8
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Last Online
    07-07-2015 @ 05:40 PM
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Slavized Italic
    Ethnicity
    Italian
    Ancestry
    Italian, American
    Country
    Ukraine
    Taxonomy
    pontid
    Politics
    socialist
    Hero
    Galileo, Voltaire, Marx, Lenin
    Religion
    atheist, human reason
    Age
    --
    Gender
    Posts
    6,840
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 2,249
    Given: 1,392

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by antonio View Post
    Not only there's a massive lexical evidence. Syntactic paralelisms between English and a modern Romance language (like Spanish) are astonishing. Altough it's no surprise a English speaker without deep knowledge of no Romance lacks that similarity, it's really bizarre that people like an almost bilingual English-Spanish female coworker of mine did not get it when I first exposed my thinkings on it almost 10 years ago. Ask Osweo for further info, I bet he already experienced it.

    Another evidence would be the amount of Spanish people with English skills which would like us to learn German and compare it with the few actually learning it. Besides phrases like "Ich been ein Berliner" would, i use to find majority of German text almost clueless from English.
    I am sorry, but I don't think that the grammatic of the romance languages are similar to English. In the case of Italian it is more similar to the grammar of German, though German is a flexive language and Italian is semiflexive. English is downright a no-flexive language, except some exeption. It is an isolant language. Same goes with French and I suppose with Spanish.
    Romanian is even closer to German becouse they are both flexive with cases.

    Anyway the right phrase is "Ich BIN ein Berliner". I actually study German.

  9. #9
    Veteran Member Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    antonio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Online
    10-07-2014 @ 05:52 AM
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Romance
    Ethnicity
    HispanoRoman-IberoAquitanian-Suevian
    Country
    Spain
    Politics
    Autocrat and Antiglobalization Traditionalist
    Religion
    Roman-Catholic
    Gender
    Posts
    2,989
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 53
    Given: 29

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vampire of Venice View Post
    I am sorry, but I don't think that the grammatic of the romance languages are similar to English. In the case of Italian it is more similar to the grammar of German, though German is a flexive language and Italian is semiflexive. English is downright a no-flexive language, except some exeption. It is an isolant language. Same goes with French and I suppose with Spanish.
    Romanian is even closer to German becouse they are both flexive with cases.

    Anyway the right phrase is "Ich BIN ein Berliner". I actually study German.
    You put a sample to correct a little detail. But you miss a single one to reinforce your refutation of my post, based BTW on relevant ones I could expose anytime. Another strange thing is what you told about Italian, Spanish and French belonging grammatically different types: I know Italian plurals are built by changing last vocal to -i while Spanish ones are built by appending -s, but this is not enough at all...just to post one of the clearest differences between Spanish and Italian.

    Pd. Needless to say (or not) i consider English-Spanish similarities as an incidental result from Norman, Latin and French deep influence on modern English.

  10. #10
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Last Online
    10-05-2014 @ 02:26 PM
    Ethnicity
    European
    Country
    European Union
    Gender
    Posts
    9,734
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,296
    Given: 3,160

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Under French and Latin there, you've got all sorts of words that you've never used in your life, except in a physics lesson at school, or in a doctor's surgery.
    Yes, whilst Ibex twice pointed out that rather a few important / common words in English are of Romance origins I have to say most of the words I've ever had to look up in a dictionary have been derived from Greek, Latin or French.
    Of course many important words in English are Romance, but I also believe a great deal of the "junk words", those which are uncommon and little used are of Romance origins.

    Society.. what is that?
    Good question, its a word for generalizing I see it as ethnicity, language, religion, customs, traditions and law - the defining elements of a group of people. Maybe my definition is a bit far-reaching.

    A lot of our administration and 'justice' was foreshadowed in the pre-Norman period. Much they brought with them has since passed away, but what we have now is obviously built on it.
    Yes, I hadn't thought about that. I think I read somewhere that English common law is based on Germanic law codes whereas other law codes such as Scottish civil law is based around Roman law. How true is this?

    Another evidence would be the amount of Spanish people with English skills which would like us to learn German and compare it with the few actually learning it. Besides phrases like "Ich been ein Berliner" would, i use to find majority of German text almost clueless from English.
    Disregarding the English language's roots and classification for a moment, do you see it as closer to German, a Romance language such as Spanish or French or very distinct from both?

Page 1 of 11 12345 ... LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •