Mongol invasion of old Russia 1237-1238

[Melki]

It's difficult to say what would have happened if the Mongols stayed in Mongolia. At the time of Mongol invasion Kievan Rus' was politically highly decentralized. Accordingly, it's hard to say which dialects would prevail. Anyway their dialects should had been far from modern languages.

The Abbassid Caliphate, also preserved from the Mongol invasions, would have maybe seized the opportunity to invade the Caucasus and the Black Sea coast, who knows?

[Rumata]

The Abbassid Caliphate, also preserved from the Mongol invasions, would have maybe seized the opportunity to invade the Caucasus and the Black Sea coast, who knows?

Yes, who knows? And in the following almost eight centuries history would have yet innumerable turns.

[Herr Abubu]

The Russian winter isn't what causes invading armies the most troubles, because it's usually relatively simple and easy to predict in preparing for an invasion. The real problem is the Russian spring. The ground becomes very muddy and it becomes extremely difficult to supply the army for the army to go about. It is called rasputitsa in Russian, meaning sea of mud, I believe. This was what gave the Russians such a huge advantage in the fight against the Germans in WW2 and against the French in 1812. The Mongols, too, feared this, not the winter which they were well accustomed to. And of course they would. An army that relies so heavily on horses and which is operating over such a vast space is going to have an impossible time in such mud. They also apparently feared the Russian Orthodox clergy, believing them to be able to conjure up storms or something like that, which exempted them from paying the Tatars. This meant that the Mongol yoke in Russia was in fact relatively benign, restricted mostly to paying tribute. And, by the way, many historians have pointed out that these Mongols weren't even necessarily Asiatic. Tartar was an umbrella term for any Eurasian nomad warrior group. The Russians saw the Tatars as their kin, and Tatars, and even at times Mongols, were described as fair and Russian-like, not Asiatic. Cossack and Tatar was also used synonymously. Even Russians were at times called Tatars.

[Böri]

The Russian winter isn't what causes invading armies the most troubles, because it's usually relatively simple and predictable to prepare for. The real problem is the Russian spring. The ground becomes very muddy and it becomes extremely difficult to supply the army for the army to go about. It is called rasputitsa in Russian, meaning sea of mud, I believe. This was what gave the Russians such a huge advantage in the fight against the Germans in WW2 and against the French in 1812. The Mongols, too, feared this, not the winter which they were well accustomed to. And of course they would. An army that relies so heavily on horses and which is operating over such a vast space is going to have an impossible time in such mud. They also apparently feared the Russian Orthodox clergy, believing them to be able to conjure up storms or something like that, which exempted them from paying the Tatars. This meant that the Mongol yoke in Russia was in fact relatively benign, restricted mostly to paying tribute. And, by the way, many historians have pointed out that these Mongols weren't even necessarily Asiatic. Tartar was an umbrella term for any Eurasian nomad warrior group. The Russians saw the Tatars as their kin, and Tatars, and even at times Mongols, were described as fair and Russian-like, not Asiatic. Cossack and Tatar was also used synonymously. Even Russians were at times called Tatars.

Yeah Batu Khan himself favored Turkic tribes there against Slavs, as Berke which followed him converted in Bukhara he openly supported Turks. Seljuk Sultan of Rum even married his daughter to him and Berke invited Turcomans from Anatolia to south Ukraine. Some settled, it's why south coast Crimean Tatars speak a language not like other Tatars but very Oghuz (high mutual intelligibility with Turkish so). Mongols were elite rulers of army among their soldiers there were massive presence of non-Mongol persons.
Anyway as barbarian as it seems, what Batu did to Russia was incredible and forever changed Russian history and even ethnogenesis. What Batu did in only 6 months to Russia sealed Russia's fate for next 200 years.

[Böri]

It wasn't Iran but some stupid Türkler in power with no brain, he managed to defeat the Mongols at first but eventually lost. Mongols also wiped out numerous Tatar tribes, which almost got them extinct.

Yeah it was Turkic rulers of Iran who beheaded Gengish Khan envoy and made him crazy. Sadly it's Persians and Central Asian Iranics which paid terrible price. He massacred many Turks but Mongols were still more forgiving with Turks compared with Iranians and Arabs. The massacre of east Iranics and Persians were like a genocide sadly. Khwarezmian Turcoman rulers of Iran simply fled as Gengis was moving forward. Historians say Iran recovered demographically only in 19th century and reach its 13th century population prior to genocide.

[ЛыSSый]

If it weren't for the Mongols who sacked and destroyed it, Kiev would have remained the Мать городов русских (Mother of Russian cities).

wrong translation was made by uneducated clowns.
The source text

Ѡлегъ се буди мт҃и градомъ рускими

Proper translation: Oleg will have it as russian city.

[ЛыSSый]

But Russians often say that Kiev is the mother of all Russian cities and Novgorod the father.

show us these "russians". For we may check it

[ЛыSSый]

Father. Kiev is in masculine gender unlike Moscow.

europeans in mass haven't gender definitions in languages and it's probably main reason why there are so lot of pervents among them.

[War Chef]

Do you think Kiev would have led the Russian world without the Mongol invasions? Ukrainian would have been the litterary language instead of Russian with figures like Gogol and Pushkin writing in their native world. Ukraine would have been the true Russia (Ukraine means the "border"). It's just my personal opinion. What would have happened if the Mongols stayed in Mongolia?

Ukrainian isn't a language, it's more like a dialect (think of redneck accent in southern U.S.).

& Yes Kiev would've been the capital. The difference would be the expansion & swallowing up of Siberia by Cossack explorers would've taken place much later, by that time China would've took control of most of Siberia.

[Rumata]

Yeah Batu Khan himself favored Turkic tribes there against Slavs, as Berke which followed him converted in Bukhara he openly supported Turks. Seljuk Sultan of Rum even married his daughter to him and Berke invited Turcomans from Anatolia to south Ukraine. Some settled, it's why south coast Crimean Tatars speak a language not like other Tatars but very Oghuz (high mutual intelligibility with Turkish so). Mongols were elite rulers of army among their soldiers there were massive presence of non-Mongol persons.
Anyway as barbarian as it seems, what Batu did to Russia was incredible and forever changed Russian history and even ethnogenesis. What Batu did in only 6 months to Russia sealed Russia's fate for next 200 years.

After Mongols crashed Kipchaks in the south, part of Kipchaks (chased by Mongols) ran to Russians and asked to confront Mongols together, arguing that if it's not done Mongols would crash Slavs right after they dealt with Kipchaks. Slavs considered and accepted this proposal even though Mongols asked to join them against Kipchaks (which could turn an unreliable alliance too).
The key battle was Battle of the Kalka River where joint forces of Slavs and Kipchaks were tactically annihilated. Unneeded killing of Mongol ambassadors made it worse.