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Thread: Nationality Laws. What would you change ?

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    Veteran Member The Lawspeaker's Avatar
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    Default Nationality Laws. What would you change ?




    Some earlier ideas:
    On immigration, naturalization and citizenship.

    I think that the Netherlands should completely overhaul it's immigration policy. When it comes to foreign labor it is perhaps a good idea to only hire people in accordance to the freedom of movement within the European Union thus fellow Europeans if they work under Dutch labour regulations (CAO). However they would have to leave as soon as their study or job is done and each permit would have to be reviewed each year by a local referendum (in small communities) and in big cities by the council.
    Another group that would enjoy freedom of movement would be the Afrikaners because they are related kin.

    Each person applying would be checked for it's background, criminal record, fitness, pre-existing conditions (psychical and mental) and a full check for other diseases (including HIV-AIDS or hepatitis). Someone with pre-existing conditions that are not infectious (for instance back problems) would receive medical assistance when required. If the condition is infectious, the person has a criminal record (as much as a speeding ticket !) or has psychological and behavioural problems that person will be refused indefinitely and will be marked in police, health agencies, labour, university, transport company, airliner and customs files as a "risk case".

    A "European" group that will be marked on the risk list right away will be any member of the Roma or Petalo gypsy families.

    Non-Europeans applying (if not invited by an employer or for an education or when married or getting married to a native Dutch citizen or a adopted (one of his adopted parents has to be native Dutch) Dutch citizen) will be refused right away and will find themselves on the risk list as well.


    For those that would want to stay only marriage to a Dutch citizen should give him/her that option but it would not automatically quality them for citizenship. For those that would naturalize and become citizens a special law should still exclude them from the right to vote for national elections or to be elected.
    The only exception will be made for people from the Dutch diaspora that speak Dutch as their native language and for Afrikaners (which should be granted citizenship after 5 years of living in the country)
    For cantonal and local affairs each canton or community should decide for itself. First let's look at a sound definition of the Dutch nationality that should then come into existence:

    A person is a Dutch citizen at birth if he or she is:
    • born in the Netherlands (or abroad on for instance a Dutch ship, in a Dutch airplane or a Dutch facility anywhere in the world to a Dutch parent)
    • born to a Dutch father or mother, if parents are married
    • born to a Dutch mother, if parents are not married
    • Where parents marry after birth and only the father is Dutch, the child acquires Dutch citizenship at that point.


    For children born to one foreign parent a dual nationality is possible until the age of 18 when a boy or girl would be eligible for the draft or the right to vote. In that case the child would have to announce his allegiance in public and in front of at least 10 witnesses and a judge. In case the person would announce his allegiance to the foreign nation the Dutch nationality (along with local citizenship) will be lost and cannot be retrieved.


    For children born outside the Netherlands it is possible to gain citizenship after being registered at a local Dutch consulate or embassy- if the other parent is also of European descent.
    When it comes to adopted children it would be law that only children can be adopted in either the Netherlands and North-Western Europe or from European South Africans. In the case of adoption from anywhere else does the child have to be affiliated to the adopted parents (it's natural parents either have to be friends or relatives from the adoptive parents).

    Jus soli will and does not exist in the Netherlands, hence birth in the Netherlands in itself does not confer Dutch citizenship on the child.

    On acquiring citizenship:

    A person of descent married to a Dutch citizen may apply for Dutch citizenship by facilitated naturalisation after living in Dutch for thirty years and having been married for at least ten years after declaring his or her allegiance in public (in front of at least 10 witnesses and a judge) which would be followed by a local referendum. One must show:
    • integration into the Dutch way of life;
    • familiarity with Dutch habits, customs and traditions - and be able to speak Dutch with fluency;
    • compliance with the Dutch rule of law;
    • no danger to the Netherlands' internal or external security.

    The same goes for foreign residents that have become integrated within the Netherlands and have served the country with distinction. By serving it's armed forces or serving the country some other way. A nationality can only be awarded after a review of his/her actions by the local council, magistrates and population and a local referendum.

    In case of divorce the nationality will be lost to the one who has acquired it.

    Cantons and communities impose their own residence and other requirements, which may be additional to those imposed by the Netherlands.

    Children from the person's previous relationships are NOT automatically given citizenship along with the partner unless being formerly recognized and adopted by the Dutch parent.

    Spouses acquiring Dutch citizenship by facilitated naturalization will acquire the citizenship of the community and canton of their Dutch spouse (after a referendum in the spouse's community and canton after a referendum if local law desires so). And receiving Dutch citizenship implies that one's other nationality is immediately revoked as holding dual-citizenship is not allowed.

    Upon birth a child will become the citizen of the community and canton in which it was born - in case it was born abroad the father's community will provide the child's citizenship and when the father is not Dutch it will be the mother's community that will provide it. This form of citizenship will be for life (if so stated in local law) and cannot be renounced unless the bearer has moved to some other community and has been invited to become a citizen.

    That means that even if the bearer is living in another province he would only be allowed to vote in his town/ canton of birth.





    (Red means that I have altered and added some definitions).
    Last edited by The Lawspeaker; 11-26-2010 at 07:55 PM.



    Wake up and smell the coffee.


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    Veteran Member The Lawspeaker's Avatar
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    About forfeiting Dutch citizenship.

    It would be possible to lose citizenship. A person that will serve in foreign armed forces (regardless if the individual would hold dual citizenship) will immediately lose Dutch citizenship and if those armed forces belong to a power that would be deemed hostile against the Netherlands the person would be put on trial (when arrest is possible) for high treason to which there is only one fitting punishment: the firing squad.

    This does not go for Dutch citizens involved in a popular uprising against the government as an uprising is a signal that the government has lost it's mandate to govern the country.

    A person would also lose his/her citizenship if he/she accepts the citizenship of a foreign power.

    In case of divorce the nationality will be lost to the one who has acquired it.

    In case a person holding a dual nationality would announce his allegiance to the foreign nation the Dutch nationality in front of at least 10 witnesses and a local judge (along with local citizenship) will be lost and cannot be retrieved.

    A person that has acquired citizenship would also lose it in the case of "acquiring it under false pretences" which could range from committing crimes to being involved in a marriage scam or lying about ones role while serving in the Dutch military.



    Wake up and smell the coffee.


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    I would just restrict immigration from overly religious parts of the world.

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    I can certainly agree with you on lots of points. I think a distinction should be made between nationality and citizenship.

    Nationality is which nation you belong to. If you're German and you immigrate to the Netherlands, your ancestry, culture and heritage are still German - i.e. you're still a German national.

    Citizenship however is being awarded rights such as voting, social security etc.

    Also, citizenship can be revoked but nationality cannot. I imagine such legal recognition would give greater rights to nationals of particular nation-states to maintain their majorities, culture, traditions etc.

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    If I give my opinion I will repeat myself for 9999th time.

    I think Civis and other members already know it.
    Antes de subir al cadalso, Juan de Padilla se dirigió a su camarada Juan Bravo con unas célebres palabras: "Señor Bravo: ayer era día de pelear como caballero...hoy es día de morir como cristiano". Ante esto, Juan Bravo pidió ser ejecutado antes que Padilla, "…para no ver la muerte de tan buen caballero". Horas más tarde, también fue ejecutado y decapitado el salmantino Francisco Maldonado.


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    Senior Member Mighty Atom's Avatar
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    Citizenship by bloodline/ethnicity only. No naturalization unless the applicant can prove blood kinship to the country at hand.

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    I like the idea of this forum, some good discussion points can be made. Here is what I would change.

    Norway- since Norway is free of the EU it could conceivably do this, ALL refugee immigration is HALTED IMMEDIATELY, Somali, afghan, gypsy all are to be returned to their homelands at the earliest possible time, no exceptions. The money saved by doing this will be redistributed in 2 ways. 1ST Norwegians will be given tax and other benefits on a tiered system for having children helping the population. 2ND Scandinavians residing in North America will be granted citizenship if they can show that at least one set of their grandparents were Norwegians (ideally both), this will help to recover the Scandinavian immigration of the late 19th and early 20th century to north america, aiding the aging population and snuffing out the remaining undesirables.

    Canada- Immigration from none european countries is to be severely restricted, tax benefits are to be given to canadian citizens to produce children and a family cap on immigrant families is to be instated immediately. Immigration from African nations is banned totally. Money given to "native indians" is to be cut by 50% the first year, then 10% each of the following years until the 5th year, when funds are completely stopped. The laws on the reservations can be handled by the natives, but government funding of native anything will not start to flow unless they meet the same standards that all canadians live by. The commonwealth is to strengthened, to free up more tourism and immigration.

    hmm, thats a start i'll try to come up with more

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    In France we will have to stop the "droit du sol"
    that allow somebody whose born in France to become French ,
    and go back to the"droit du sang"
    where you need to have French blood to become French .

    Because even if we stop mass imigration , the new "french" will still
    marry to their African congenere and make the family come here .

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    I was going to say that people should not become American citizens by marrying Americans, and illegal immigrants' children shouldn't automatically become Americans, but that just increases the number of illegal immigrants who can abuse the system. So maybe not

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mighty Atom View Post
    Citizenship by bloodline/ethnicity only. No naturalization unless the applicant can prove blood kinship to the country at hand.
    What do you suggest America do? It's a melting pot there really is no true ethnicity/nationality..

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