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Thread: Portuguese Genes

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    Default Portuguese Genes

    It was discovered, not so long ago, that the Lusitanians, ancestors of the Portuguese, owned two unique genes that are not found anywhere else in the world, except in Portugal.

    • A25-BIS-DR2
    • A26-B38-DR13


    A26-B38-DR13 is the most ancient gene of mankind and A25-BIS-DR2 is a very rare one also found only in Portugal and its descendants abroad.
    This was a discovery which brought a lot of attention in the world of genetics and racial studies. According to it, it was able to prove the Portuguese have the oldest genetic code in the world.
    Some time ago, I made a post about the genetical differences between the Portuguese and the Mediterraneans from a similar study. I’ll take the opportunity to again make a reference to the article which talks about it and its conclusions.

    In short words, it proves the Portuguese are not of Mediterranean origin:



    “A33B14-DR1 is found in Mediterraneans, but not in Basques or Portuguese, reflecting the relative lack of contact with Mediterraneans common to both Basques and Portuguese; these latter groups also share one of the highest frequencies of the Rh phenotype. A25B18-DR15 is only found in Portugal among Europeans; it is also observed in white North Americans and in Brazilians (Imanishi et al. 1992b). It is probably a marker for the ancient Portuguese people in Europe and for people of Portuguese descent in America. A26-B38-DR13 is a specific Portuguese marker not found in any other part of the world, and it probably existed in the first western Iberians. Therefore, Portuguese is a relatively distinct population among Iberians according to our HLA data. They seem not to have had a significant contribution to their genetic pool from paleo-North Africans (A30-B18) and Mediterraneans (A33-B14) on the one hand, and on the other hand they show two specific haplotypes, A25-B18-DR2 and A26-B38DR13. Portuguese people have also maintained a certain degree of cultural and ethnic-specific characteristics since ancient times. Portuguese and Basques do not show the Mediterranean A33-B14-DR1 haplotype, suggesting a lower admixture with Mediterraneans; Spaniards and Algerians do have this haplotype in a relatively high frequency, indicating a more extensive Mediterranean genetic influence. The paleo-North African haplotype A30-B18-DR3 present in Basques, Algerians, and Spaniards is not found in Portuguese either. The Portuguese have a characteristic unique among world populations: a high frequency of HLA-A25-B18-DR15 and A26-B38-DR13, which may reflect a still detectable founder effect coming from ancient Portuguese.”
    YDNA: R1b-L21 > DF13 > S1051 > FGC17906 > FGC17907 > FGC17866


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    Thoughts on this? Is it bullshit or what? The source provided for this article doesn't help much as well.

    Source: “Relatedness among Basques, Portuguese, Spaniards, and Algerian studied by HLA allelic frequencies and haplotypes.”

    Article in IMMUNOGENETICS.
    YDNA: R1b-L21 > DF13 > S1051 > FGC17906 > FGC17907 > FGC17866


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    Quote Originally Posted by Viriato View Post
    Thoughts on this? Is it bullshit or what? The source provided for this article doesn't help much as well.

    Source: “Relatedness among Basques, Portuguese, Spaniards, and Algerian studied by HLA allelic frequencies and haplotypes.”

    Article in IMMUNOGENETICS.
    Mostly bullshit or precipitated conclusions, it happens alot when they discover some little thing, they got carried away and jump to absurd conclusions that end up being debunked after. It's evident that Portuguese people are mostly of mediterranean origin, anthropologically is unrefutable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebastianus Rex View Post
    Mostly bullshit or precipitated conclusions, it happens alot when they discover some little thing, they got carried away and jump to absurd conclusions that end up being debunked after. It's evident that Portuguese people are mostly of mediterranean origin, anthropologically is unrefutable.
    That can be though because we intermixed with other Iberian tribes eventually throughout the ages, internal migrations within the peninsula and within Roman-Hispania later. Basques are unique as well within the peninsula and I think we know very little about the Lusitanian tribes genetically speaking. Were they of Mediterranean origin? Or were they something completely different like the Basques? If we carry their genes then it might explain why we have some of those rare genes. If Lusitanians weren't Mediterranean it does not necessarily mean that the modern average Portuguese is not (we are talking about a 3,000 years gap).
    YDNA: R1b-L21 > DF13 > S1051 > FGC17906 > FGC17907 > FGC17866


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    Quote Originally Posted by Viriato View Post
    That can be though because we intermixed with other Iberian tribes eventually throughout the ages, internal migrations within the peninsula and within Roman-Hispania later. Basques are unique as well within the peninsula and I think we know very little about the Lusitanian tribes genetically speaking. Were they of Mediterranean origin? Or were they something completely different like the Basques? If we carry their genes then it might explain why we have some of those rare genes. If Lusitanians weren't Mediterranean it does not necessarily mean that the modern average Portuguese is not (we are talking about a 3,000 years gap).
    Well anthropologically, if you read Coon's The Races of Europe, all evidence points that during that period, the crania found in Portugal belongs to the Mediterranean type.
    http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/index2.htm

    http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/chapter-IV6.htm

    http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/chapter-III04.htm

    Basques are also of Mediterranean origin, the completely different origin of the Basques theory was already debunked, specific genes found among some populations can occur due to mutations and don't influence the overall anthropological origin or genetic composition of the population.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebastianus Rex View Post
    Well anthropologically, all evidence points that during that period, the crania found in Portugal belongs to the Mediterranean type.

    Basques are also of Mediterranean origin, the completely different origin of the Basques theory was already debunked, specific genes found among some populations can occur due to mutations and don't influence the overall anthropological origin or genetic composition of the population.
    Most scholars assume that Lusitanians came from the Swiss Alpes\North Italy before roaming and settling in Iberia. We can only speculate though.



    We don't descend only from the Lusitanian tribes (even though in Portugal we always put more emphasis on them), there were other tribes living where Portugal is geographically located nowadays. I think it is fair to assume that most of the tribal borders on this map are not hundred per cent accurate as well. Could it be that the crania found comes from some other tribes\people or even a cross between some of those tribes (which I think it is fair to assume it happened)?
    YDNA: R1b-L21 > DF13 > S1051 > FGC17906 > FGC17907 > FGC17866


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    To say that Portuguese are so different from Mediterraneans is silly when intermarriage happened throughout Iberia this is nonsense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SardiniaAtlantis View Post
    To say that Portuguese are so different from Mediterraneans is silly when intermarriage happened throughout Iberia this is nonsense.
    No one is saying that they differ, it is saying that we have at least two unique genes only to be found among people with Portuguese ancestry.
    YDNA: R1b-L21 > DF13 > S1051 > FGC17906 > FGC17907 > FGC17866


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    Quote Originally Posted by Viriato View Post
    No one is saying that they differ, it is saying that we have at least two unique genes only to be found among people with Portuguese ancestry.
    I know you aren't saying that but the article does state that Portuguese don't have Mediterranean origins. Which is silly because even if it were partially true it would still be partially untrue and therefore completely inaccurate.

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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Viriato View Post
    Most scholars assume that Lusitanians came from the Swiss Alpes\North Italy before roaming and settling in Iberia. We can only speculate though.

    I've never read such theory, I believe there's an equivocation there. Most scholars believe that Lusitanians inhabited the western Iberian Peninsula since the neolithic.

    They later mixed and absorbed several waves of Celtic tribes migrations during the Hallstatt culture period/Iron Age (circa 800-600 BC), it is those Celtic tribes who are believed to have origin in the Alpine/Danubian region.

    We don't descend only from the Lusitanian tribes (even though in Portugal we always put more emphasis on them), there were other tribes living where Portugal is geographically located nowadays. I think it is fair to assume that most of the tribal borders on this map are not hundred per cent accurate as well. Could it be that the crania found comes from some other tribes\people or even a cross between some of those tribes (which I think it is fair to assume it happened)?
    Lusitanians (who later mixed with Celts of the Hallstatt culture) ended up dominating most of the present Portuguese territory, don't know if all those ancient tribes shared a common origin. Without more crania evidence we enter the field of pure speculation.

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