Illegal Immigrants' Contribution to Greek GDP

[Loki]

Nop , This is actually true.

Albanians are most hardworking people that i've ever seen (Along with poles) and I'm not saying it because I'm an Albanian.

Since 1991 we built half of Greece , We did all the hard jobs and we ALWAYS payed our taxes. There also illegal Albanians but they are very few.

But... Greece is struggling with unemployment, especially in these days of austerity. Hence, Albanians in Greece who are working, are occupying jobs that Greek people could have had.

[Lavrentis]

Because this is a discussion forum, and it's basically between Greece and Serbia where we divide our geopolitical attention. Turkey would've been added as well but we don't share a border and largely have mutual interests in recent decades.

Lots of demonization of Albanians in Greece, lots of historical inaccuracies etc. So this forum can many times open up for the actual historical facts to be brought forward, rather than a Greek-Western romanticized view of history that is to a large degree entirely false.

For example, did you know how much immigrants contributed to Greece before this thread? Do you think most people knew? Most people just hearing the western mass produced propaganda on Albanians would've just assumed they barely produced anything, that all they did was crime, yet here we see factually that the case is closer to being the direct opposite, the immigrants are pretty much carrying most of the weight of everything.

Did you know about Arvanites before the threads on them? All that has been posted? Many Greeks don't even know, they get furious even when their own historians bring it up. I think it's interesting to discuss historical facts, and also it's funny since there's so much butthurt that comes along with it. For example here, an entirely factual thread, backed by sources, and all the Greeks can do is begin the process of shitposting, as they always do. That's usually how it goes.

The reason Albanians might seem more preoccupied with Greece than the other way around is because the Greeks have zero on us that can't be disproven by facts. They just don't want to take it there. Their most common arguments are in line with Albanians not being of the right Abrahamic religion (lol), or Arvanites being Greeks from Arvanon while Albanians are from caucasus (lol), they've just realized that they keep getting rekt so they don't have much.

You guys are right only in your Arvanite arguments.

I admit that Arvanites came from Albania, that's a historical fact. But, today the Arvanites consider themselves as Greek.

But you know what's another fact? Your inferioty complex and obsession towards Greece, Balkan redneck. You and the other Albanian trolls here.

[Albobalboa]

Sounds like the same BS reason leftists use to justify 3rd world migrants to invade Europe.

The facts are posted earlier in the thread. Do you have some reading difficulties?

[Albobalboa]

But... Greece is struggling with unemployment, especially in these days of austerity. Hence, Albanians in Greece who are working, are occupying jobs that Greek people could have had.

Could have had if they were more efficient, if they were willing to work in worse conditions for less pay etc. Don't make excuses.

[Thanas Django]

Could have had if they were more efficient, if they were willing to work in worse conditions for less pay etc. Don't make excuses.

Keep riding your high horse.

[Ujku]

But... Greece is struggling with unemployment, especially in these days of austerity. Hence, Albanians in Greece who are working, are occupying jobs that Greek people could have had.

Nop , Greeks don't do the jobs Albanians do. Trust me bro i know what I'm saying.

[Queen B]

Where are the sources and where are this ''author''s sources? Did he used ELSTAT? Did he used the Greece's tax stats, or of ministry of Economics? Did he used the reports from SOPEMI?

Because if he did, he would know that in the past (90s mid 2000) immigrant's contribution to GDP was 1 to 1.5% and now has gone from 2.3 to 2.8%. (the contribution of illegals is between 0.5% to 0.8% of GDP). At the same time, the effect of immigration in Greece before crisis costs 3% of GDP

Also, it really doesn't take a genius to realize that illegal immigration does NOT help, but instead - at the end of the day, the balance is negative.

a) Illegals don't pay taxes , and subsequently, neither does their employers (if they have and don't work alone).
b) Due to Greece's structure , they will enjoy for things that they never pay. Meaning , free healthcare (in emergency, not to have a root canal or check their eyes f.e.), school for undocumented kids, even jail.
c) I won't even start by the recent immigration in Aegean (mostly), they huge impact those islands have on tourism, the disasters they have created, and/or the cost of hosting them....

As you can see in the last source, as the author clearly indicates :

It has been estimated that in the early 1990s, when the share of immigrants in the total population was substantially lower than its current level, the net contribution of immigrants to GDP ranged between 1 and 1.5%. Although at first sight these figures seem quite low in comparison with the immigrants’ share in the labour force, this is not surprising since the wages of immigrants are much lower than those of Greeks and, therefore, their contribution to the portion of GDP going to labour should be less than their share in the labour force .Further, Chletsos et al (2005)report a positive and statistically significant relationship between the number of immigrants and the growth rate of the local economy and a negative and statistically significant relationship between the number of immigrants and the product of the agricultural sector as a percentage of local GDP. More recently, Kontis et al. (2006) attempt to estimate the economic impact ofimmigrants (both legal and illegal) on GDP using three different approaches based on the use of Social Accounting Matrices.
In these matrices immigrants are treated as an independent factor-group whose members participate in the process of
production, get paid, distribute their value added to households, which in turn consume, save or make transfer payments within the country or abroad. It is estimated that the contribution of immigrants to GDP in 2004 ranges from 2.3% (expenditures side) to 2.8% (income generating side). Between 0.5% and 0.8% of these figures is due to the contribution of undocumented immigrants.

Immigrants, particularly undocumented ones, are usually employed in the execessively large informal (shadow) sector of the Greek economy, mainly in temporary jobs and are paid wages lower than those of Greek workers with similar qualifications According to Lianos et al (1996),Kanellopoulos (2005) and Labrianidis & Lyberaki (2001) the employment of immigrants in the informal sectorof the economy resulted in an expansion of the underground economy. Earlier studies (e.g. Kanellopoulos et al, 1995) estimate that informal economic activities accounted for more than 30% of GDP in the late 1980s, while between 16% and 20% the labour supplied and employed in Greece was not registered. Hence, it would be unfair to claim that the immigrants are mainly responsible for the large share of informal economy in Greece, since it existed long before they arrived. According to Kanellopoulos (2005), other factors seem to be more influential in maintaining the extensive informal economy in Greece, such as the high level of social insurance contributions, the socially unfair distribution of public benefits, labour market frigidities and the weakness of public administration.

http://www.migrationinformation.org/...lay.cfm?ID=884
http://www.eliamep.gr/wp-content/upl...eport_2010.pdf

http://ftp.iza.org/dp3754.pdf

To sum up, what is the ''author'' is talking about, is the Shadow/Informal Economy. Not the illegal immigration contribution.
Those numbers (see above) have existed before immigration in Greece, and shadow economy makes more harm than good anyway.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmc.../#58908fba742c

PS: The immigrant's unemployment is also that high. Yes, higher than of the locals.

/case closed.

[Albobalboa]

Where are the sources and where are this ''author''s sources? Did he used ELSTAT? Did he used the Greece's tax stats, or of ministry of Economics? Did he used the reports from SOPEMI?

Because if he did, he would know that in the past (90s mid 2000) immigrant's contribution to GDP was 1 to 1.5% and now has gone from 2.3 to 2.8%. (the contribution of illegals is between 0.5% to 0.8% of GDP). At the same time, the effect of immigration in Greece before crisis costs 3% of GDP

Also, it really doesn't take a genius to realize that illegal immigration does NOT help, but instead - at the end of the day, the balance is negative.

a) Illegals don't pay taxes , and subsequently, neither does their employers (if they have and don't work alone).
b) Due to Greece's structure , they will enjoy for things that they never pay. Meaning , free healthcare (in emergency, not to have a root canal or check their eyes f.e.), school for undocumented kids, even jail.
c) I won't even start by the recent immigration in Aegean (mostly), they huge impact those islands have on tourism, the disasters they have created, and/or the cost of hosting them....

As you can see in the last source, as the author clearly indicates :



http://www.migrationinformation.org/...lay.cfm?ID=884
http://www.eliamep.gr/wp-content/upl...eport_2010.pdf

http://ftp.iza.org/dp3754.pdf

To sum up, what is the ''author'' is talking about, is the Shadow/Informal Economy. Not the illegal immigration contribution.
Those numbers (see above) have existed before immigration in Greece, and shadow economy makes more harm than good anyway.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmc.../#58908fba742c

PS: The immigrant's unemployment is also that high. Yes, higher than of the locals.

/case closed.

Faas, Daniel. "Between ethnocentrism and Europeanism? An exploration of the effects of migration and European integration on curricula and policies in Greece." Ethnicities 11.2 (2011): 163-183. Source quoted.

Look at your own sources, shadow economy is huge. Are you unaware what undocumented labor means?

Illegal immigrant workforce doesn't help?



God damn man, should I go Queen B on TA or George Friedman, it's a tough one. I'll go with ol Georgie on this one but maybe Queen B some other time.

How the fuck did you assume illegal immigrants would've contributed to the white economy? Of course it's going to be through illegal work, and that money then gets used up in the Greek economy.



/Case Open. Release the shitstorm

[Albobalboa]

MFW Queen B arrived and bothered to check other sources.

BURN THE WITCH!

[Thanas Django]

snip

The quality of Albanian trolling went down by 80% the moment they started using Buzzfeed pics.

No, we won't intellectually engage some kid who just tries to weave as many insults and negs in his stupid posts as possible.