March of the Titans

**~~Vasconcelos~~** · 02-15-2011, 08:13 PM

You shouldn't even "try to find evidence" that MotT is a load of lies, it's pretty obvious for everyone who has some basic knowledge of European history and is free of racial obcession.
"OH MY GOD YOU HAD AN AFRICAN ANCESTOR 999999 YEARS AGO, YOU FUCKING NIGGERLING"

**Guararapes** · 02-15-2011, 08:31 PM

Arthur Kemp was born in Southern Rhodesia, spending his formative early political years in South Africa.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Kemp

Epic Fail

Racial Wars are not for amateurs.

**Debaser11** · 02-15-2011, 08:43 PM

I'm not ready to say MotT is gospel truth and would be VERY hesistant to do so even though I think the point Great Dane made earlier about its allegorical relevance to the modern world makes it a useful read aside from the interesting politically incorrect photos of various artifacts he includes. But I must respectfully disagree with the notion that when you're arguing against the positive claims that Kemp at least tries to support that you do not need evidence to support your counterclaims as well. Let's not resort to religious paradigms when discussing historical matters. You (and I'm not saying "you" to anyone in particular) accord your side no respect with childish defensive rants and silly ad hominems (which is what I largely see coming from the southern patriots), I'm sorry to say.

I keep reading this thread HOPING to find something to consign Kemp's work to the dumpster and the only poster I've seen that's really impressed me with any attempt to seriously refute Kemp's work has been Osweo (though I don't think he's completely squashed the general thrust of Kemp's work) who is not even from a southern country.

Kemp also says something about a partially mongolized Eastern Europe where I have ancestry on both sides of my family. Though my Polish father has blond hair and blue eyes, I have a relative on my maternal side that looks very "exotic" and suspiciously swarthy and I have even had friends who have met him ask me out of curiousity what he is because he's a very "interesting" looking man. He's Czech. Well, in the book, Kemp talks about how parts of Hungary and the present day Czech Republic (I believe he even identified Moravian Czechs which is what my grandfather is) as being likely to have this ad mixture of Hun/Asiatic blood. Does that mean it's true that his look comes from such Asiatic lines? Certainly not. But there could be something to it. Given what I observe through my own ancestry along with basic knowledge of European invasions, his words are food for thought. I can digest them and consider them without getting hyper defensive and throwing a tantrum like some religious fanatic. I have always wondered where his look came from even when I was a small child. What Kemp says seems plausible to me even if there are competing explanations that are equally plausible.

"You shouldn't even try to find evidence" sounds a lot like what a religious fundamentalist might say, if you ask me. I don't think what the OP is asking for is unreasonable.

**~~Osweo~~** · 02-15-2011, 09:06 PM

How many instances of absurd mishandling of the evidence are required, in order to demonstrate that a particular author is not as conscientious with data as he should be, if he is to be taken seriously as a composer of works that tackle such deep general tendencies as the entire history of a major race of Mankind?

How many times do we have to rip apart a randomly chosen part of the text, showing that it is assembled from a motley collection of half-truths, guesses, cognitive bias and downright superstition, in order to convince of the character of the book as a whole?

Debaser, you talk of eastern racial characteristics at the far western end of the Great Steppe conveyor belt. That should surprise nobody, and is NOT a great revelation for which we are beholden to Kemp. You have missed the main point though; Kemp's central premise is that your relatives, because of the exotic parts of their pedigree, are now rendered INCAPABLE of creating or supporting an advanced civilisation. Do you believe that? A visit to the sink estates of England and then to the small towns of Moravia and the Alfold should be enough to warn anyone against such an approach to historical analysis.

Being as generous as I possibly can, I would class Kemp's style as 'journalistic'. I'm not going to promote an overgrown journalistic pamphlet as respectable history. To successfully demolish it in the eyes of others seems to be dependent on the level of enthusiasm others have for various notions that they find in Kemp's message. Ideological commitment, fanaticism and credulity are, unfortunately, rarely overturned by rational demonstration of error and faulty methodology.

**Aramis** · 02-15-2011, 09:21 PM

Agreed Debaser11! If anyone is sure about Kemp's stories being such boldly lies, there's nothing to fear. Put aside your lowlife insults and filthy tactics, saddle that horse called Truth, and make his tower of cards crumble. Are you ready for it?

As for my opinion of MotT...

Originally Posted by Adolf Hitler

Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it

Nordisch Überdude

**~~Vasconcelos~~** · 02-15-2011, 09:48 PM

**Matritensis** · 02-15-2011, 10:06 PM

You have missed the main point though; Kemp's central premise is that your relatives, because of the exotic parts of their pedigree, are now rendered INCAPABLE of creating or supporting an advanced civilisation

Exactly.

**~~Osweo~~** · 02-15-2011, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by Osweo

Kemp's central premise is that your relatives, because of the exotic parts of their pedigree, are now rendered INCAPABLE of creating or supporting an advanced civilisation. Do you believe that?

... and do you believe that Kemp is in any position to demonstrate it, indeed?

Originally Posted by Debaser11

allegorical relevance to the modern world

MotT as allegory?! I think there's more of value in MotU.

**Saruman** · 02-15-2011, 10:44 PM

Parts where Kemp speaks about decline of the west, immigration might be taken as solid, couple of other parts too, as well as some of his videos on YT, he makes some good points.

He spoke of balkans too as well about many other areas. It's true that Non-Europeans expanded to the areas he mentioned, he simply though grossly overstated the genetic input they have left behind, something that can easily be proven by both genetic and phenotypical analysis.

Book has an ambitious title, work in which anthropology plays an important part yet he is quite ignorant of it. From the start his claim that Mediterranid sub-race has died out mostly is mindbogglingly ridiculous, such claim was not made by any important anthropologists that I know of, not Gunther, not Von Eickstedt, especially not Coon, or Lundman...

Do I need now to post hundreds of sentences from their work to "prove" Kemp wrong??? At least plausible but probably correct hypothesis about formation of Mediterranid sub-race, its current spread, traits has already been presented by these anthropologists and their work has been thankfully properly "modernized" and enriched by Agrippa. So Kemp should provide his evidence to the contrary, though he even failed to describe sub-racial traits properly, he also relied excessively on pigmentation, which though often important in differentiating between various sub-types, is far from being the only factor.

MEDITERRANEAN - MIXTURE OF BODY TYPES

The Mediterranean racial sub grouping virtually no longer exists today - the first of the three White racial sub-groupings to disappear from the earth, submerged into the gene pools of surrounding races. The Mediterranean sub grouping was predominantly (but not totally) characterized by dark hair and eye color, slim (Nordic) or solid (Alpine) body build and either long or round skull shapes.

MEDITERRANEANS VIRTUALLY EXTINCT

It is worth stating again, as it is of great significance in more ways than one, that there are very few of these original Mediterranean racial types left in the world today. They were known as the "Old Europeans" and inhabited large parts of Europe, Egypt, the Middle and Near East and Egypt at the dawn of history.

These Mediterranean types bear almost no resemblance to the present day inhabitants of the Mediterranean basin: the original Old Europeans have been absorbed almost completely into either the Nordic/Alpine stock in Europe itself, or the African/Semitic/Asian stock of North Africa, the Near and Middle East.

The only place in Europe where occasional glimpses of this original Mediterranean racial sub grouping can still be seen, is in the Celtic fringes of Britain, most notably in Wales and Devonshire, and in the Basque territory of Spain. In these regions there exists a short dark strain - remnants of the original inhabitants of Europe.

Pure examples of this Mediterranean type are however still fairly rare, as even they have for the largest degree had some Nordic or Alpine admixture over the years.

Bolded is in contradiction to every credible anthropological work, he provided no evidence for these claims, he just made them. He could have read some of their work, material is pretty available. Where are his sources? I shouldn't do anything. I will just side with other credible sources stating the opposite, he made a latter different claim, he should have proven it, since he hasn't, may he or someone else do that for him here, otherwise any further discussion regarding this important topic in particular is without purpose.

**~~Osweo~~** · 02-15-2011, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by Saruman

The only place in Europe where occasional glimpses of this original Mediterranean racial sub grouping can still be seen, is in the Celtic fringes of Britain, most notably in Wales and Devonshire, and in the Basque territory of Spain. In these regions there exists a short dark strain - remnants of the original inhabitants of Europe.

I live in Devon. This is a joke.