Was Europe or America the leader in liberalism?

[SwordoftheVistula]

Did liberalism arrive in America from Europe, or did it arrive in Europe from America?

For the purpose of this discussion, 'liberalism' will mean what it has been most commonly understood to mean in the English language for the past several decades: not what it meant in 1830, not 'classical liberalism', not some foreign word which sounds similar or is derived from 'liberal'.

Some first-generation European immigrants have pushed these ideas ('anarchists', socialists, and 'radicals' arriving from Europe in the early 20th century, and other groups such as the 'Frankfurt school' in the mid 29th century).

Additionally, the parts of the country with the most recent European immigration were always the most pro-multicult/pro-immigration (northeast, and large cities such as Chicago and New Orleans), whereas those which have had gone the longest without new immigration from Europe were the most likely to oppose new immigration from the third world or otherwise (in order; the deep south, the rust belt midwest, and the interior west).

Most left-wing/pro-multicult policies were imposed by our Supreme Court (not by voters or national legislature), often directly citing European law & customs in a desire to force the US to move in a more European direction, especially in the realms of legalization (and later 'gay marriages' in some states) and capital punishment.

Voting for women (1920s) came at about the midpoint for European countries, voting for nonwhites was phased in over a century from the 1860s-1960s, forcing legislative districts to be equal in population (giving more power to urban vs rural areas) was forced by Supreme Court dictate in 1966.

Desegregation in the 1950s-1970s, all roughly around the same time as Europe.

Liberal economic policies (social security, public housing, government provided health care, government payments to unemployed workers, etc) all came well after, and under influence from, these policies in Europe, with the exception of government provided education.

AFAIK, the US is the last white country in the world to allow persons under 18 to join the military, and was the last to permit their execution (again, stopped by Supreme Court dictate, citing European laws & customs)

In at least one area, gun restrictions, Europe has continued to move to the left, while the US has moved to the right.

Any argument that the 'US' imposed liberal policies on Europe' is absurd, since Europe adopted liberal policies well before they were adopted in the US. One can find numerous citations in US Supreme Court decisions citing European law & customs for imposing liberal policies, as well as by legislators, I am unaware of any European court or legislative proceedings proposing liberal ideas on the basis that 'America has these so lets do it'. The 'WWII/NATO' conspiracy theory does not hold water, seeing as how Sweden is widely considered perhaps the most liberal country on the planet.

The only 'liberal' policies in which the US has been the clear leader have been a couple womens rights issues (no-fault divorce in every state but New York & unrestricted abortion) as well as the 'Miranda rights' to criminal suspects. The 'Miranda rights' and unrestricted abortion also came about from Supreme Court dictate. I would argue that the effect of these is significantly less than all of the above.

[lei.talk]

For the purpose of this discussion, 'liberalism' will mean what it has been most commonly understood to mean in the English language for the past several decades: not what it meant in 1830, not 'classical liberalism', not some foreign word which sounds similar or is derived from 'liberal'.

if not classical liberalism,
is the discussion regarding liberalism or neo-liberalism

or some other?

precise vocabulary may assist those
for whom english is a second or third language.
*

[SwordoftheVistula]

The manifesto of the Liberal Democrat Party of the UK, before their coalition with the Conservatives, provides a good guideline:

http://libdemmanifesto.com/2001/2001...l#introduction

Roughly in summary, a tendency towards a managed economy in order to serve 'public interests' such as equal distribution of wealth, a social safety net, an expansive view of 'public goods' such as education & transportation, and actions perceived as benefiting the environment; combined with a push for 'social freedoms'; particularly in favor of those seen as 'historically disadvantaged' such as racial, ethnic & religious minorities, women, people from communities lower in wealth/class than the society as a whole, criminal suspects & convicts, and those in contradiction to traditional Christian morals & theology, and a skepticism or hostility towards both the military and private gun ownership.

[Grumpy Cat]

Liberalism (in the American sense) started in the Anglosphere.

[Psychonaut]

Liberalism (in the American sense) started in the Anglosphere.

Only is you consider Keynesian economics to be the ultimate root of leftism. Given that leftist think tanks mingle Keynesianism with Marxism and Maoism, the blame can hardly be laid entirely at the feet of Anglophones.

[Loki]

It probably developed spontaneously on both sides. It's a natural evolutionary progression as people become more civilized.

[The Ripper]

It probably developed spontaneously on both sides. It's a natural evolutionary progression as people become more civilized.

[Loki]

if not classical liberalism,
is the discussion regarding liberalism or neo-liberalism

or some other?

precise vocabulary may assist those
for whom english is a second or third language.

Indeed, there's liberalism and there's liberalism. It's being spoken here as if liberalism is automatically a bad thing. I disagree.

[Grumpy Cat]

Only is you consider Keynesian economics to be the ultimate root of leftism. Given that leftist think tanks mingle Keynesianism with Marxism and Maoism, the blame can hardly be laid entirely at the feet of Anglophones.

Keynesian economics fuels the destruction of Western culture. And Maxism mingles well into it.

Hell, Michael Moore is a captialist genius and he peddles Maxist propaganda to the masses. They work hand and hand.

[Grumpy Cat]

It's being spoken here as if liberalism is automatically a bad thing. I disagree.

Liberalism is definately not a bad thing. Check my post on the "what grinds your gears" thread for my feelings on the issue.

These people in the US who call themselves "liberals" are not liberals at all.