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Thread: Is Paganism our only hope against Islam?

  1. #121
    Veteran Member Wulfhere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2DREZQ View Post
    Every time we peel back another layer of the Universe there is less magic and more understanding.

    Yet, it seems to me, the ancient soothsayers, alchemists, and astrologers were on a hunt for the truth, for deeper understanding of the Universe and its' rules of operation.

    If you could call back from "beyond" the great alchemists and wizards of all time, they would abandon their smoky stone-tower secret labs and apply for jobs at Fermilab and CERN, or go to work for Genitech and Pfizer.

    Our modern fascination with magic is (at least in those I have been exposed to) not a search for truth, but a desire for an alternative to the truth. A desire to possess secrets not available to the common-minded regardless of their intellect. Science is the true decendant of those Socerers; modern followers of Magic recoil at the democratization of knowledge and seek an emotional state something like nostalgia mixed with the old secret-handshake-to-get-in.

    Searching for wonder beyond the minds capacity to encompass? Take a look at the Scale of the Universe thread! Geez, quarks and quantum foam? string theory? What has magic got to compare to that?

    PS. If you practice Magic and feel this does not describe you, my apologies. I can only describe those people I've interacted with, not everybody out there.
    Magic complements science, it's not an alternative to it.

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    So many opinions about magic, but not a single definition of what anyone means by the word...

    Since this is a word with a million different meaning, encompassing everything from theurgy to prestidigitation, it would be lovely if those of you with very strong opinions one way or the other would tell us which definition you're meaning when you say magic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychonaut View Post
    So many opinions about magic, but not a single definition of what anyone means by the word...

    Since this is a word with a million different meaning, encompassing everything from theurgy to prestidigitation, it would be lovely if those of you with very strong opinions one way or the other would tell us which definition you're meaning when you say magic.
    I had a feeling you were going to demand a definition at some point.

    I'm obviously not a practitioner. My "definition" can be no more specific than that of those who practice magic. I've never gotten a real good explanation from them either.

    Therefore, I define it vaguely as well: An alternative to more conventional religious faiths-not simply worshipping, but actively directing forces not readily discernible by normal means. Creating outcomes through means not well explained by cause and effect or the laws of thermodynamics.

    I know-could be better.
    You don't need a gun until you need a gun. Then you need a gun and there is no good substitute.


  4. #124
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    Default A Neutral Answer

    Incoming old news:

    the science and art of causing change to occur in conformity with the will
    Either you recognize the source, or require more background before continuing the debate (not directed at anyone in particular).
    "Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split."

    -Robert E. Howard

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2DREZQ View Post
    I had a feeling you were going to demand a definition at some point.

    I'm obviously not a practitioner. My "definition" can be no more specific than that of those who practice magic. I've never gotten a real good explanation from them either.

    Therefore, I define it vaguely as well: An alternative to more conventional religious faiths-not simply worshipping, but actively directing forces not readily discernible by normal means. Creating outcomes through means not well explained by cause and effect or the laws of thermodynamics.

    I know-could be better.
    That's actually quite a good definition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nodens View Post
    Incoming old news:



    Either you recognize the source, or require more background before continuing the debate (not directed at anyone in particular).
    Crowley.

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    I'm both amazed and amused by the opinions voiced here.

    Magic, no matter what paradigm you come across, must first be experienced in a subjective manner before utilizing it in the objective universe. For those that don't understand this concept... Read a book (as opposed to talking shit on an internet forum).

    No one becomes a magus/sorcerer/witch/vitki/seidkona/whatever overnight. Not even me, someone who has been practicing diligently for about 3 years now. It's an obsession of mine to peel back the layers of existence and step forth into others.

    In any case, it is not for us to prove to the rest of the world that these things are "real". Those with the eyes to see, and the Will to sacrifice damn near all shall be the ones that persevere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frater SRMD View Post
    I'm both amazed and amused by the opinions voiced here.

    Magic, no matter what paradigm you come across, must first be experienced in a subjective manner before utilizing it in the objective universe. For those that don't understand this concept... Read a book (as opposed to talking shit on an internet forum).

    No one becomes a magus/sorcerer/witch/vitki/seidkona/whatever overnight. Not even me, someone who has been practicing diligently for about 3 years now. It's an obsession of mine to peel back the layers of existence and step forth into others.

    In any case, it is not for us to prove to the rest of the world that these things are "real". Those with the eyes to see, and the Will to sacrifice damn near all shall be the ones that persevere.
    Even after the best part of 30 years in magical groups one is still learning. Wouldn't it be boring, otherwise?

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    Blind fools. You are turning yourselves into pawns of the demonic.
    [Signature Pending]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Caldazar View Post
    Blind fools. You are turning yourselves into pawns of the demonic.
    Och aye, and I proudly wear the devil's mark on my forehead.

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