E1b Y-DNA in Europe

[Oneeye]

Natufian pride world wide.

Eat your heart out, Rethel.

[Dema]

Eupedia is not reliable source. Serbs from Serbia have around 20% or little more of E1b, while Bosnian Serbs have around 15%.

Serbs realistically will have 10% of V13 at max... Maybe not even 10%, maybe less

Montenegrin's can raise your V13 if you put them in Serb group.. Also South Serbia which are mostly Slavicized Albanians like Sanxhak and Novi Pazar


Further from Albanians less V13 everyone has....


Albanians must have been among earliest separation from Indo Europeans because they are the only one forming their own branch inside of IE tree except Armenians, and they have big portion of V13 and R1b which also confirms their IE origin.

[Böri]

Not really, Neolithic Euope yielded mostly I1, I2 and G.

If V13 origin was Europe then it must have been some isolated tribe because its absent in Neolithic Europe except of few strange places like one Neolithic sample from Spanish Cave..


V13 origin is still unknown, but its 100% sure that it had Bronze Age expansion just as R1b and R1a.

Also look at V13 map that i posted its funny that Basque region does not have V13 and their language is indeed pre Indo-European.




V13 is just as Indo Euopean just as R1a and R1b. Its Bronze age invaders genociding European natives...


Hence why I1, which is found in Paleolithic and Neolithic Europe, which is formed 27500 years ago but has TMRCA only 4600 years.. Bronze age genocide..

Ofc V13 later also somewhat spread with Romans too... But that expansion is insignificant when in compare to IE one.

Basque language is thought to be (theory) from Caucasus Iber.
It has some similarities with Abkhasian.

Proto-IE people are thought to have started their journey in the Pontic-Caspian steppes.
Logically if those proto-IE were also E1b you should see some impacts until Mongolia and Siberia but there is none. While today around less than 10% of Mongolians can be R.
Let aside Mongolia, E1b is close to zero in Dagestan and Chechenia obviously.

[Wrong]

So far we know R1b-L23 is obviously an IE marker.

J2a in Bronze Age Greece was also found to be an IE marker along with Bronze Age J2b2 in the Dinaric Alps.

Also, EV13 helped spread it too.

[Dema]

Basque language is thought to be (theory) from Caucasus Iber.
It has some similarities with Abkhasian.

Proto-IE people are thought to have started their journey in the Pontic-Caspian steppes.
Logically if those proto-IE were also E1b you should see some impacts until Mongolia and Siberia but there is none. While today around less than 10% of Mongolians can be R.

No, V13 is not originally IE or proto IE. Today most acceptable theory is that IEs so R1a and R1b assimilated V13 somewhere near Pontic Steppes and then together they spread Indo Europization...


So, V13 is not IE in origin but its main expansion happened with IE expansion. So they joined early with IE forces and spread with them..

[Böri]

Man if EV13 was from Kurgan in the Pontic-Caspian steppe why the hell you don't see it in significant amount in the east of Urals?
Why close to zero for Celtic speakers (Cornwall, Britanny etc)?
Why close to zero in Dagestan and Chechenya which are just south of Pontic-Caspian steppe?

E-v13 created the Egyptian culture I guess. and prior, during the Neolithic they spread from North Africa to Europe. When you look at the distribution it's how it is.
E-v13 was the pre-IE natives in Europe just like the G.

So far we know R1b is obviously an IE marker.

J2a in Bronze Age Greece was also found to be an IE marker along with Bronze Age J2b2 in the Dinaric Alps.

Also, EV13 helped spread it too.

Yup looking at geographical distribution you see that E and J have spread to Europe in more or less same ways. There is also somewhat overlap in geographical distribution, though J also spread significantly toward Central Asia and especially Caucasus where Ev13 are present but lesser.

[Wrong]

Man if EV13 was from Kurgan in the Pontic-Caspian steppe why the hell you don't see it in significant amount in the east of Urals?
Why close to zero for Celtic speakers (Cornwall, Britanny etc)?
Why close to zero in Dagestan and Chechenya which are just south of Pontic-Caspian steppe?

E-v13 created the Egyptian culture I guess. and prior, during the Neolithic they spread from North Africa to Europe. When you look at the distribution it's how it is.
E-v13 was the pre-IE natives in Europe just like the G.



Yup looking at geographical distribution you see that E and J have spread to Europe in more or less same ways. There is also somewhat overlap in geographical distribution, though J also spread significantly toward Central Asia and especially Caucasus where Ev13 are present but lesser.

Subclades are more important to look into, J2b2 formed ~18000 years before present somewhere in the West Asian/East Mediterranean area.
From there it spread around in all directions, joined and assimilated other haplogroups.

Just the same way R spread from Southeast Asia.

[Dema]

There is nothing that can explain V13 expansion except Bronze Age Indo-European invasion since it was obviously absent in almost entire Neolithic Europe...

And you have V13 in all IE countries, where you find R1b or R1a also..

[Wrong]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R_(Y-DNA)

Haplogroup P1 (P-M45), the immediate ancestor of Haplogroup R, likely emerged in Southeast Asia.

[Böri]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R_(Y-DNA)

Haplogroup P1 (P-M45), the immediate ancestor of Haplogroup R, likely emerged in Southeast Asia.

In the long journey of mankind which started either somewhere around Sudan or maybe Yemen, the ancestors of Ev13 didnt travel all way to Middle East, North India, China, Siberia and to the steppe, like the others did.

Ev13 stayed in North Africa then they moved to Europe during the Neolithic.

The R, N, Q etc are those who made the long journey and came through Siberia and the steppes. They left the C behind them as Chinese and Mongols.

Ev13 were originally Hamitic (Afro-Asiatic) who were later assimilated by Japhetic (IE). That's how I suppose.