I2a1b2

[Light]

I2a1b2

What do you know about this haplogroup? I am interested especially in the origin of this YDNA. Thanks!

EDIT: If you are going to comment on this thread please bring some solid arguments, some evidence for your opinions.

[Kelmendasi]

It is also known as I2-L621 or I2a-Din. It's Slavic in origin and has a Slavic expansion. It has been found in samples from Poland and Russia whilst it's ancestral clade has been found in Mesolithic SHG samples from Sweden(Motala) suggesting distant origin from Scandinavia or northern Europe and had migrated to eastern Europe where it then got absorbed into the Slavic ethnogenesis from some clades. The subclades of I2a1b2 in Romania are mostly the Slavic clades iirc which have origin in eastern Europe, probably from around Ukraine as it has the highest diversity there.

[Kelmendasi]

"I2-L621 lineages could have lived in relative isolation from the mainstream Proto-Indo-European society somewhere around Ukraine, Poland or Belarus, then as the centuries and millennia passed, would have blended with the predominantly R1a populations around them. The resulting amalgam would have become the ancestors of the Proto-Slavs.

Nowadays, I2a1 is five to ten times more common than G2a in Southeast Europe, while during the Neolithic period G2a was approximately four times more common. What can explain this complete reversal? At one point in history, I2a1 lineages seem to have benefited from being on the winning side. Apart from a minor boost from (hypothetically) joining Yamna's westward expansion to Europe, the principal determining event that allowed I2a1b-L621 to become a major Eastern European lineage was probably the Slavic migrations from the 6th to the 9th century CE. Most modern Eastern Europeans belonging to I2a1b fit into the L147.2 (aka CTS10228, CTS2180 or Y3111) subclade, which is thought to have arisen 5,600 years ago (just before the Yamna period and the Trypillian expansion into the steppe), but has a TMRCA of only 2,300 years according to Yfull. The minority of I2a1b-L621 individuals negative for L147.2 are all found around eastern Poland, Belarus and western Ukraine, suggesting that this is where this lineage survived since the Chalcolithic. The I2a1b-L147.2 subclade seems to have expanded very fast from 1900 years ago, which is concordant with the timing of the Slavic ethnogenesis, considering that it takes a few centuries before one man can have enough male descendants to start having an impact at the scale of a population. This I2-L147.2 ancestor would have such an impact on the burgeoning Early Slavic population, still small 2,300 years ago, but booming.."

[Marduk]

I2a1b2

What do you know about this haplogroup? I am interested especially in the origin of this YDNA. Thanks!

That haplogroup originated in modern Ukraine or Belarus and came to the Balkans with Slavs in VII century.

[Light]

It is also known as I2-L621 or I2a-Din. It's Slavic in origin and has a Slavic expansion. It has been found in samples from Poland and Russia whilst it's ancestral clade has been found in Mesolithic SHG samples from Sweden(Motala) suggesting distant origin from Scandinavia or northern Europe and had migrated to eastern Europe where it then got absorbed into the Slavic ethnogenesis from some clades. The subclades of I2a1b2 in Romania are mostly the Slavic clades iirc which have origin in eastern Europe, probably from around Ukraine as it has the highest diversity there.

Interesting. I am more interested in finding valid arguments for the haplogroup being of germanic origin. I know that there are people who believe that and I am curious. How in the world could it be germanic? It could be true though..

[Light]

That haplogroup originated in modern Ukraine or Belarus and came to the Balkans with Slavs in VII century.

Source? Evidence?

[Kelmendasi]

Interesting. I am more interested in finding valid arguments for the haplogroup being of germanic origin. I know that there are people who believe that and I am curious. How in the world could it be germanic? It could be true though..

There is a chance of it having been brought to eastern Europeans by proto-Germanic tribes as it's ancestors did originate somewhere around Scandinavia/northern Europe, today though there aren't any Germanic subclades afaik

[Marduk]

Source? Evidence?

Read this www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php?t=31401

[Light]

bump

[Light]

Loschbour, Luxembourg 6210-5990 calBCE - L178+, M423+, P37.2+, L460+, M438+, L68+, P38+, M170+, M359.2-, L161.1-, L621- reported as I2a1b*

Sweden, Motala 3 (5898-5531 BC) - M423+, L68+, M258+, U179+, L181-, L417- I2a1b*

Sweden, Motala 12 - 5898-5531 calBC - L147.2+ [*insufficient on its own to designate a downstream subclade], L178+, M423+, P37.2+, L460+, L68+, M170+, M258+, U179+, M359.2-, L621-

Norway, Måløya, Steigen - 5950-5764 cal BP - I2a1b