Map of J2b2-L283

[Trojet]

In Europe there is only L283 when it comes to J2b-M241 so they were all L283 most certainly

Not most certainly, but the bolded part.

[Wrong]

Not most certainly, but the bolded part.

Hey bro. Are the 0-0.1% and 0.1-2% values in the map grade correct or a typo by the one who made it?

I assumed they would be 0-1% and 1-2% respectively. Anyway it's a great map nonetheless.

[Trojet]

The published scientific studies about Greek Y-DNA are old. I don't think they ever tested for L283. In one 9 years old study that tested for 'M241' 4.4% of his sample of Greeks from Athens belonged to 'M241' while it was 1.8% in Greek Macedonia.

And I believe he chose to paint the map based on some assumptions he made. (for example L283 as common in Epirus as in South Albania, L283 higher in regions with attested significant Arvanite presence, for example Attica and NE Peloponnese etc)

The main issue isn't if it is believable but if it is based on actual data.

I don't get all this sensitiveness regarding this haplogroup in Greece. To me the map seems about right. For example, in a scientific study this haplogroup in Euboea and Corinthia was recorded at 7.3% and 5.5% respectively.

If you don't believe me, as I posted on another forum, here is the source: http://amsdottorato.unibo.it/3628/1/...Paolo_tesi.pdf

"The sister clade of J2a-M410, J2b-M102 shows a higher frequency in Euboea (9.4%), with the majority of haplotypes belonging to the J2b-M241 sub-branch (77.8%). On the other hand Korinthia shows a frequency of haplogroup J2b-M241 of 5.5%, with all haplotypes belonging to the J2b-M241 lineage"

As we know in Europe all J2b-M241 is J2b-L283, so according to this study in Euboea J2b-L283 is 7.3%, while the rest of J2b should be J2b1-M205 at 2.1%, for a total of 9.4% J2b. In Corinthia J2b-L283 is 5.5%. For comparison in the most recent study of Cyprus J2b-L283 is ~1%.

[Coolguy1]

Actually the map seems correct. Most j2b2 in Greece is probably Arvanite in origin, but I’m sure its been present in ancient times as well. Some of it probably from Dorians.

[Danaan]

I don't get all this sensitiveness regarding this haplogroup in Greece. To me the map seems about right. For example, in a scientific study this haplogroup in Euboea and Corinthia was recorded at 7.3% and 5.5% respectively.

If you don't believe me, as I posted on another forum, here is the source:

Regarding Euboea, the following is taken from here: http://amsdottorato.unibo.it/3628/1/...Paolo_tesi.pdf

"The sister clade of J2a-M410, J2b-M102 shows a higher frequency in Euboea (9.4%), with the majority of haplotypes belonging to the J2b-M241 sub-branch (77.8%). On the other hand Korinthia shows a frequency of haplogroup J2b-M241 of 5.5%, with all haplotypes belonging to the J2b-M241 lineage"

As we know in Europe all J2b-M241 is J2b-L283, so according to this study in Euboea J2b-L283 is 7.3%, while the rest of J2b should be J2b1-M205 at 2.1%, for a total of 9.4% J2b. In Corinthia J2b-L283 is 5.5%. For comparison in the most recent study of Cyprus J2b-L283 is ~1%.

To be frank I wasn't aware of that study. Personally I don't know if all J2b-M241 is L283. I am willing to believe you since you have researched it.

But in the map some Greek regions appear to have 10-15% L283. So regions that may have around 5% appear to have up to 15%.

[Trojet]

To be frank I wasn't aware of that study. Personally I don't know if all J2b-M241 is L283. I am willing to believe you since you have researched it.

But in the map some Greek regions appear to have 10-15% L283. So regions that may have around 5% appear to have up to 15%.

If you haven't learned by now that all M241 in Europe is L283, then you obviously are not well informed regarding this haplogroup.

As far as the percentages go, it's a different story. The map is not perfect by any means, but overall the best and most detailed I have seen for this haplogroup so far

[Kouros]

Any explanation for that red corner in South-Western Romania (Or north-western Bulgaria, can't tell)? Also, from what region do Arvanites originate? Judging by those Peloponnese percentages I would be inclined to say Ghegnia...

[Danaan]

If you haven't learned by now that all M241 in Europe is L283, then you obviously are not well informed regarding this haplogroup.

As far as the percentages go, it's a different story. The map is not perfect by any means, but overall the best and most detailed I have seen for this haplogroup so far

Without thinking it is very important, I don't like that type of statements because even one native European who is M241 but not L283 is enough to make it technically wrong.

Concerning the map, which is more important I believe it is partly based on a number of assumptions like all similar maps. (and no special knowledge is needed to understand that) and I wrote about Athens, for example, that one 9 year old study showed 4.4% 'M241' in Athens which is less than what the map shows (10-15) and the same is true about Corinthia apparently based on the study you mentioned. Everything about Greece in that map has a chance to be wrong.

[Scholarios]

Yes, while Arvanite influence is strong in Greece, J2b is 5% or less- so I am skeptical about the map of Morea too. Maybe I am missing something. I think most Arvanites would be E1b, judging from individuals' results I have seen.

edit: saw Trojet's post, makes some sense now.

As for Danaan, just give up already. He wants proof that 99% of Greeks are NOT pure descendants of Herakles himself, and the other 1% are half.

[Skerdilaid]

Shoshi. Shala, a tribe that shares descent with us, is R1b, so we’re probably R1b.

Nigga, you Shoshi for real? We need your spit man, buy a freaking kit ASAP.