Are some Americans more American than others?

[Finnish Swede]

Even before it invaded Iraq (in both wars) and Afghanistan the US government needed the backing of most of the international community. An invasion of Mexico would be a hard sell. With the first Iraq war Saddam had invaded Kuwait and so it was an easy sell to most of the international community. Osama bin Laden was living in Afghanistan with Taliban support and so that was an easy sell. The second Iraq war was a difficult sell and took time but enough of the international community went along with it.

My understanding is that for example the second war against Iraq really did't get backing from most of international community. More likely only UK (from Europe) supported it. But that did't stop Uncle Sam....and nobody talked that fact much afterwards.

[LightHouse89]

That's the natural human instinct that every single human group on Earth has. Your ancestors should follow morals and ethics by giving up and being happy with only Europe, but no, you weren't happy enough in your own homeland and wanted to steal another folk's homeland. That's just immoral and antiethic.

When a society has a population explosion they tend to colonize other territories. Industrialism fueled it. It has nothing to do with morals... but many might have found it moral to go out and establish colonies for different reason. My ancestors came here and created New England to practice their religion and to establish a new nation. They did not steal any land. They showed up and build a colony. No one said they could or couldn't. What state existed here prior to their arrival? The nearest natives lived several weeks/days away from them LOL.

[dperucca]

When a society has a population explosion they tend to colonize other territories. Industrialism fueled it. It has nothing to do with morals... but many might have found it moral to go out and establish colonies for different reason. My ancestors came here and created New England to practice their religion and to establish a new nation. They did not steal any land. They showed up and build a colony. No one said they could or couldn't. What state existed here prior to their arrival? The nearest natives lived several weeks/days away from them LOL.

+1.

[Sasuke]

1] Aboriginals did not want citizenship
2] Some tribes were considered enemies as they openly declared war on the state
3] they were not north western European

1] Citation needed.
2] Your ancestors shouldn't have built a racially European state out of Europe to begin with. Your homeland is Europe, not the Americas (as a whole continent, not just the USA).

Mistakes? We have no control over what happened in history. I don't look at history as having mistakes or that people collectively make mistakes at different points in time to fit some modern narrative of social justice... that's insane Hegelianism at work right there. Its like a warped ideology of puritan original sin and how it passes on generation after generation ...ad nauseum. That's not taking history in an objective way but looking at it in a misinformed manner.

Those who don't learn history are deemed to repeat it. History serves as a way of giving us consciousness, to make us conscious of the horror that our ancestors have caused and then be ready to never repeat them.

How a modern way of looking at history...

1] colonialism bad
2]white people were the bad racist
3] people of color lived in harmony with nature and themselves until racist civilization showed up
4] civilization was a bad thing
5] western culture is irredeemable and sinful

1] Colonialism simply goes against the objective moral values held by the earliest humans. The earliest humans didn't do it until the beginning of farming, when certain tribes started fighting against each other to steal the other tribes' food. Agriculture started immorality in the world.
2] White people did what other peoples were already doing, but in a more destructive scale than others, and acknowledging this historical fact has nothing to do with "anti-White racism". It's simply a historical fact. You Whites should look at it and realize that it was a mistake, not just ignore it and call everyone who talks about it "an anti-White". This is a fallacy used by the alt-right to justify racism towards non-Whites. I don't hate your people, I only wish your people would give up the irrational idea of White superiority. It isn't that hard... although I'm not White myself, I also used to believe that Whites were somehow "more civilized" or "more intelligent" until I realized that it was all pseudoscientific and pseudohistorical ethnocentric bullshit.
3] "People of color had built great civilizations that were advanced and in balance with nature at the same time, such as the Aztecs, Incans and Mayans. The Mayan calendar was so advanced that even modern scholars still can't understand it completely. Please don't even mention their human sacrifice practices because the Celts also did it (there are ancient Roman documents proving this). The main issue is: for some reason, Whites have practiced colonialism in a much larger and more horrific genocidal scale than other peoples, which does NOT make you "more evil" than other races, but it only means your ancestors made a mistake regardless of the reasons they had for committing such horrifying attitude. You can be proud to be White because of all the White inventions, etc.; but claiming that your ancestors did NO mistake EVER is just absurd and historically unaccurate.
4] Civilization was a good thing whilst it was in balance with nature, but until the arrival of the Industrial Revolution it began to be a destructive force against Gaia, Mother Nature.
5] Personally, I don't think it's irredeemable, your people (and also the Oriental people, who recently joined your destructive industrial lifestyle) can stop with industrialism if you want, which will redeem you... but you still don't want to live in balance with Mother Gaia, so it's still a very complicated situation...

A population that is conquered and pushed aside looses its territory to another population which in turn can create a state of its choosing and new identity... that has happened throughout history. It will continue to happen through out mankind's life span as a species.

This way of thinking is immoral. It doesn't matter if it has happened throughout history, it doesn't make it any less immoral just as the fact that rape has happened throughout history doesn't make it any less immoral either.

The aboriginals did the same things the European colonists did.

Yes, they did. I never denied this fact. However, the same error cannot justify the same error; it's still an error.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

My understanding is that for example the second war against Iraq really did't get backing from most of international community. More likely only UK (from Europe) supported it. But that did't stop Uncle Sam....and nobody talked that fact much afterwards.

They wouldn't have enough support in the UN to get the go ahead but felt they had support from enough nations to go through with it. Canada, for example, was against the invasion unless it had the go ahead from the UN but yet also showed the US good will.

[Sasuke]

When a society has a population explosion they tend to colonize other territories. Industrialism fueled it. It has nothing to do with morals... but many might have found it moral to go out and establish colonies for different reason. My ancestors came here and created New England to practice their religion and to establish a new nation. They did not steal any land. They showed up and build a colony. No one said they could or couldn't. What state existed here prior to their arrival? The nearest natives lived several weeks/days away from them LOL.

How about birth control in Great Britain before colonization? If you had this brilliant idea, your people would be in your homeland and no genocide would've happened to the natives. I wish you all had this idea before having so many kids that you didn't have enough space to handle.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

1] Citation needed.
2] Your ancestors shouldn't have built a racially European state out of Europe to begin with. Your homeland is Europe, not the Americas (as a whole continent, not just the USA).



Those who don't learn history are deemed to repeat it. History serves as a way of giving us consciousness, to make us conscious of the horror that our ancestors have caused and then be ready to never repeat them.



1] Colonialism simply goes against the objective moral values held by the earliest humans. The earliest humans didn't do it until the beginning of farming, when certain tribes started fighting against each other to steal the other tribes' food. Agriculture started immorality in the world.
2] White people did what other peoples were already doing, but in a more destructive scale than others, and acknowledging this historical fact has nothing to do with "anti-White racism". It's simply a historical fact. You Whites should look at it and realize that it was a mistake, not just ignore it and call everyone who talks about it "an anti-White". This is a fallacy used by the alt-right to justify racism towards non-Whites. I don't hate your people, I only wish your people would give up the irrational idea of White superiority. It isn't that hard... although I'm not White myself, I also used to believe that Whites were somehow "more civilized" or "more intelligent" until I realized that it was all pseudoscientific and pseudohistorical ethnocentric bullshit.
3] "People of color had built great civilizations that were advanced and in balance with nature at the same time, such as the Aztecs, Incans and Mayans. The Mayan calendar was so advanced that even modern scholars still can't understand it completely. Please don't even mention their human sacrifice practices because the Celts also did it (there are ancient Roman documents proving this). The main issue is: for some reason, Whites have practiced colonialism in a much larger and more horrific genocidal scale than other peoples, which does NOT make you "more evil" than other races, but it only means your ancestors made a mistake regardless of the reasons they had for committing such horrifying attitude. You can be proud to be White because of all the White inventions, etc.; but claiming that your ancestors did NO mistake EVER is just absurd and historically unaccurate.
4] Civilization was a good thing whilst it was in balance with nature, but until the arrival of the Industrial Revolution it began to be a destructive force against Gaia, Mother Nature.
5] Personally, I don't think it's irredeemable, your people (and also the Oriental people, who recently joined your destructive industrial lifestyle) can stop with industrialism if you want, which will redeem you... but you still don't want to live in balance with Mother Gaia, so it's still a very complicated situation...



This way of thinking is immoral. It doesn't matter if it has happened throughout history, it doesn't make it any less immoral just as the fact that rape has happened throughout history doesn't make it any less immoral either.



Yes, they did. I never denied this fact. However, the same error cannot justify the same error; it's still an error.

So much nonsense. I'll deal with only two parts of your post:

The early human beings were brutal. They conquered people and enslaved them. Their 'moral objective values' were survival of the fittest and to the victor goes the spoils. How do you think cultures spread in ancient times? They didn't spread with hugs and kisses.

The Aztecs, Incas, and Mayans had brutal cultures. I'm not going to bother going into it. I'll just place the seed in your brain to motivate you into reading about these cultures. I'll say this much: The Aztecs didn't fall to the Spanish. They fell to the Spanish and their seriously pissed off Amerindian allies who were tired of being abused by their Aztec masters. Enjoy reading about human sacrifice.

5] Personally, I don't think it's irredeemable, your people (and also the Oriental people, who recently joined your destructive industrial lifestyle) can stop with industrialism if you want, which will redeem you... but you still don't want to live in balance with Mother Gaia, so it's still a very complicated situation...

You do realize that you've adopted this nonsense (Mother Gaia? WTF...) because as you already shown you have in the past (and still do now) feel inferior to Whites and so you tried to find a way to not feel inferior by adopting a rather mystical, goofy belief. The Industrial Revolution was awesome. The reason why today our quality of life is so great is because of it. The reason why your children or future children don't have a 50/50 chance of dying before they reach their first birthday is because of modernization. Your fantasy of living one with nature was a horrible reality for our ancestors. Do you want to live with tape worms? Of course not.

[Sasuke]

The idea of living in harmony with nature sprang from western culture. The science of ecology was founded by a German nationalist whose opinions would influence the Nazi Party and its state policy later on. Ecology and environmentalism did not become politically important or noticeable until the late 1800s [1890]. People who live in hunter gatherer societies have historically been more warlike and far less ecological... they generally over hunt their hunting areas to the point they drive out wild life and have in the past hunted various species to the point of extinction. Hunter gatherer societies wee more fragile than more advanced societies and also much politically weaker... hunter gatherers have been on the decline since 10,000 years ago. How many hunter gatherer societies exist today? Not many.

Its impossible either way to live in harmony with nature though... mankind always exceeds his carrying capacity.

Yet your ancestors were nothing more than hunter-gatherers at the same time of when Orientals were already writing.

[LightHouse89]

1] Citation needed.
2] Your ancestors shouldn't have built a racially European state out of Europe to begin with. Your homeland is Europe, not the Americas (as a whole continent, not just the USA).



Those who don't learn history are deemed to repeat it. History serves as a way of giving us consciousness, to make us conscious of the horror that our ancestors have caused and then be ready to never repeat them.



1] Colonialism simply goes against the objective moral values held by the earliest humans. The earliest humans didn't do it until the beginning of farming, when certain tribes started fighting against each other to steal the other tribes' food. Agriculture started immorality in the world.
2] White people did what other peoples were already doing, but in a more destructive scale than others, and acknowledging this historical fact has nothing to do with "anti-White racism". It's simply a historical fact. You Whites should look at it and realize that it was a mistake, not just ignore it and call everyone who talks about it "an anti-White". This is a fallacy used by the alt-right to justify racism towards non-Whites. I don't hate your people, I only wish your people would give up the irrational idea of White superiority. It isn't that hard... although I'm not White myself, I also used to believe that Whites were somehow "more civilized" or "more intelligent" until I realized that it was all pseudoscientific and pseudohistorical ethnocentric bullshit.
3] "People of color had built great civilizations that were advanced and in balance with nature at the same time, such as the Aztecs, Incans and Mayans. The Mayan calendar was so advanced that even modern scholars still can't understand it completely. Please don't even mention their human sacrifice practices because the Celts also did it (there are ancient Roman documents proving this). The main issue is: for some reason, Whites have practiced colonialism in a much larger and more horrific genocidal scale than other peoples, which does NOT make you "more evil" than other races, but it only means your ancestors made a mistake regardless of the reasons they had for committing such horrifying attitude. You can be proud to be White because of all the White inventions, etc.; but claiming that your ancestors did NO mistake EVER is just absurd and historically unaccurate.
4] Civilization was a good thing whilst it was in balance with nature, but until the arrival of the Industrial Revolution it began to be a destructive force against Gaia, Mother Nature.
5] Personally, I don't think it's irredeemable, your people (and also the Oriental people, who recently joined your destructive industrial lifestyle) can stop with industrialism if you want, which will redeem you... but you still don't want to live in balance with Mother Gaia, so it's still a very complicated situation...



This way of thinking is immoral. It doesn't matter if it has happened throughout history, it doesn't make it any less immoral just as the fact that rape has happened throughout history doesn't make it any less immoral either.



Yes, they did. I never denied this fact. However, the same error cannot justify the same error; it's still an error.

I don't need a citation because it is common knowledge. Infact one of the first laws passed into action during Independence it was made clear who was an ''American'' politically.. if you need a citation for that then I feel sorry because you can google it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natura...on_Act_of_1790

Well my ancestors could not carve out land or a living space in Europe. How could that have worked with well entrenched societies? Some of which refused to allow them in, in the first place. The only alternative was creating a New England elsewhere. That would have been for them more practical and realistic which makes sense.

''Colonialism simply goes against the objective moral values held by the earliest humans.'' What objective morals existed? Hunter gatherer tribes constantly colonized and exterminate one another for hunting grounds among other resources. LOL Objective morals? LOL wut? '' The earliest humans didn't do it until the beginning of farming, when certain tribes started fighting against each other to steal the other tribes' food. Agriculture started immorality in the world.'' Hunter gatherers massacred each other for living space all the time... time and time again. Tribes/nation came and went left and right. Farming proved more effective when it came to survival because now as oppose to over hunting they could farm for resources. Farming came about at the end of the ice age and many arge game began to die off as a result. Farming was also necessary for survival... but farming communities are more organized and have much larger populations so it makes sense why they would win against hunter gatherers. They also have more sophisticated tools and weapons... hunter gatherers be them of the old world or new had stone tools and relied on very limited supplies which meant any prolonged war they would lose.

''White people did what other peoples were already doing, but in a more destructive scale than others, and acknowledging this historical fact has nothing to do with "anti-White racism". It's simply a historical fact. You Whites should look at it and realize that it was a mistake, not just ignore it and call everyone who talks about it "an anti-White". This is a fallacy used by the alt-right to justify racism towards non-Whites. I don't hate your people, I only wish your people would give up the irrational idea of White superiority. It isn't that hard... although I'm not White myself, I also used to believe that Whites were somehow "more civilized" or "more intelligent" until I realized that it was all pseudoscientific and pseudohistorical ethnocentric bullshit.''

White people did what others did correct. They were more destructive? No probably less destructive. The level of destructive doesn't make sense to me... destructive in what way? I never said anything about being ''anti white''... ''It's simply a historical fact.'' LOL . ''You Whites should look at it and realize that it was a mistake, not just ignore it and call everyone who talks about it "an anti-White". Colonialism gave you the conveniences you use today... modern medicine, modern tools, a written language to insult me with etc... I am not saying sorry for that. Too bad.

'' I don't hate your people, I only wish your people would give up the irrational idea of White superiority.'' I prefer the term Eurasian superiority because civilization and modern cultural development came from that part of the world not the other way around. Its not racism but reality... its reality that's where civilization came from. If you think that's racist, well that's your problem. You said ''superiority'' not me.

''"People of color had built great civilizations that were advanced'' LOL what?? hahah. '' and in balance with nature at the same time'' we wuz kangz and in harmony with nature LOL ,'' such as the Aztecs, Incans and Mayans'' yes but they also did not leave anything behind like a written language, modern tools etc... so how great were these people then? A small group of conquistadores had no trouble bringing those mighty people down. ''The Mayan calendar was so advanced that even modern scholars still can't understand it completely.'' Yeah but we don't use it at all because its not accurate. ''Please don't even mention their human sacrifice practices because the Celts also did it (there are ancient Roman documents proving this). '' Okay fair... no comment as I never said anything about that. ''The main issue is: for some reason, Whites have practiced colonialism in a much larger and more horrific genocidal scale than other peoples, which does NOT make you "more evil" than other races, but it only means your ancestors made a mistake regardless of the reasons they had for committing such horrifying attitude.'' Europeans practiced colonialism no differently than the Neolithics did in Europe thousands of years ago... or no different than what other people have done. The level of destruction? What does that even mean? Europeans made the discoveries of environmental impact not aboriginals living in north America LOL. You can be proud to be White because of all the White inventions, etc.; but claiming that your ancestors did NO mistake EVER is just absurd and historically inaccurate. Colonailism for industrial Europe was inevitable... and so was their spread and with it the development of mankind... the Neolithic revolution was earth shattering as it drove mankind towards becoming more evolved just as the industrial age did... its just the way it turned out. Why cry about it today? European colonialism happened over a long period of time and in many ways benefitted the world we live in... I think though globalism will have negative effects in the long run for everyone though... as this makes the spread of diseases much worse.

Aboriginals in north America mostly died from diseases... to boot they lived in small scale societies and lived a life that was out dated for the time. It was a matter of time that the north American aboriginal was going to come into contact with more advanced societies which would have pushed their way of life far aside. Natives did not complain about it so much before? Why do they complain about it today? Well because of modern mythology about how great being a hunter gatherer was... when most people with half a brain would know that way of life is long gone and probably for the best.

Natives had access to technology they weren't able to create like steel tipped arrows for hunting so as opposed to driving an entire herd of buffalo over a cliff they could shoot one or two buffalo to not kill the entire herd and food source... they use to drive a herd of buffalo or elk over a cliff to harvest two dead animals. If that seems like living in harmony with nature then I think you might be a bit wrong there... that's how they historically hunted buffalo before the 1600s AD.

Colonialism happens in every society due to over population... population explosions for more stress on a society so they must raid and take resources from other places to support their population growth. There are thousands of examples of this in history.

[LightHouse89]

Yet your ancestors were nothing more than hunter-gatherers at the same time of when Orientals were already writing.

False. Farming came to Europe about 8,000 years ago... maybe 10,000. Northern Europe was mostly small farming communities at the time when china had writing... also the first written European languages would have been the proto-Greeks known as the Mycenaeans.