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Thread: New York Abortion Rates - Good News?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis24 View Post
    60% of black pregnancies end in abortion?! o_O
    It really makes one wonder how much they must actually breed for their numbers to only really be decreasing because of emigration out of the city, not declining birth-rates. I personally find it appalling, but not surprising given the Negro's animalistic obsession with sex.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe McCarthy View Post
    The American eugenicist Madison Grant was an advocate of abortion...
    I'm never quite sure where to stand on Grant; he had some decent ideas in terms of population control but his understanding of race, especially in a European context, is completely flawed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa View Post
    Abortions are only a problem, if you abort children/embryos you need and which would fit into the group, with the end of the pregnancy being a loss for the group. Even worse if there are not enough children of that quality born any more at all.

    If that is not the case, abortion is no problem to me, because the embryo is not a conscious being or human person in the sense I described and discussed it on this board already.
    This is definitely a popular understanding, and even Aquinas argues that abortion in the first trimester is not murder, but still a condemnable thing.

    My chief concern in being anti-abortion is the irresponsibility it seems to foster; people can have rampant anonymous sex and if there's an unwanted pregnancy, rather than being responsible and dutiful they can simply kill it off and go back to doing what they were before. Abortion, therefore, when socially acceptable, becomes an encouragement for sexual promiscuity and irresponsibility. Something must be put in place socially to counter-act this effect if we want to use abortion as a population control in the way you suggest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa View Post
    So what happens in New York is nothing great, but it is good news for sure, because it could be worse: More Europeans using abortion, more foreign elements do not.

    Yet I'm pretty sure it is not really good news, because Europeans are more likely to plan their life and even sexual activities, so they use other contraceptives.

    To put it simple, the foreign elements get more pregnancies, so they abort more often and still have more offspring left. Abortion is just "the contraceptive of those which are too dumb, to unplanned and careless" - of course, an unwanted pregnancy can always happen, even if using contraceptives and nobody is so planned to use a relatively secure contraceptives all the time me thinks (which is why I'm for legal abortions in general, I don't want to push woman into an unwanted pregnancy), but some just do it on a regular basis.
    Which is why I increasingly am becoming less anti-abortion, because it seems to affect our own people less. Ultimately, however, I must maintain my original position because of the way abortion seems to either encourage or at least be representative of lax sexual morals that ultimately can only lead to both a collapse of birthrates and a collapse of society as a whole.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa View Post
    Women having many abortions in a row are usually at the lower end of the moral, social and intellectual spectrum.
    I agree, and believe this is why we see such high numbers among Negresses. Negroes are by their nature of at the very best of moral, social, and intellectual quality incompatible with Western civilization, and at the worst are born inferiors to all other cultures, civilizations, and races.

    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis24 View Post
    If a woman is willing to abort all her children, and not have any children, in my opinion this shows she's highly self-interested. Highly self-interested women have self-interested children, so I see abortion destroying genetic lines as being a natural selection away from self-interested behavior more towards caring, cooperative behavior. A good thing.
    True, but should we be encouraging selfishness and self-interested behaviour like this by widespread acceptance of abortion? Are the risks greater than the rewards? This is my chief concern in the abortion issue, even if it does weed out undesirables.

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    True, but should we be encouraging selfishness and self-interested behaviour like this by widespread acceptance of abortion? Are the risks greater than the rewards? This is my chief concern in the abortion issue, even if it does weed out undesirables.
    No, because I believe most behavior is genetic. Abortion doesn't encourage selfish behavior, but it does decrease it over the long-term, because it ensures the most selfish people don't pass on their genes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis24 View Post
    No, because I believe most behavior is genetic. Abortion doesn't encourage selfish behavior, but it does decrease it over the long-term, because it ensures the most selfish people don't pass on their genes.
    So you would say that personalities, attitudes, morals, etc. are entirely genetic with no environmental influences?

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    It would be so much more simpler, and cheaper, for those minority women to have an IUD inserted. I don't really care about aborted black and Mexican babies, but how many unplanned pregnancies to black and Mexican women are carried to term? It's best they not get pregnant in the first place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Civis Batavi View Post
    So.. to all of you people that are complaining already: suppose that these anti-abortionists got what they wanted: then what ?

    Oh I'm all for abortion. Just for certain populations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wagnerian View Post
    So you would say that personalities, attitudes, morals, etc. are entirely genetic with no environmental influences?
    Well... yeah. I don't see why its so hard to believe. Some things do seem to have environmental influence - such as serial killers etc. - but even then, I think that the urge to kill is itself inherited.

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    Black women are much more willing to abort than are white or even Mexican women. They seem to be able to more easily stomach the whole abortion process, whereas white and to a lesser extent Mexican women seem to have much more difficulty emotionally actually going through with an abortion, whereas black woman do not in comparison.

    I'd say this has a lot to do with how a black child is viewed in comparison with a white or Mexican child. To an ignorant young black woman aborting a black child is not the cultural and or social travesty that aborting a white or Mexican child is to those mothers. I think there is more shame for the white and Mexican women than the black woman feels.

    And yeah it is absolutely true. Abortion in the last 50 years has killed more blacks and Mexicans than in all of slavery and U.S. wars combined 500x. Ask a white social liberal about abortion sometime. Nod and smile accordingly. Then go talk to some 'supposedly' crazy, evil-racist eugenicist who is pro-abortion. See if the two's arguements are all that different once you remove the sociopolitical labels and look at their substance objectively.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis24 View Post
    If a woman is willing to abort all her children, and not have any children, in my opinion this shows she's highly self-interested. Highly self-interested women have self-interested children, so I see abortion destroying genetic lines as being a natural selection away from self-interested behavior more towards caring, cooperative behavior. A good thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis24 View Post
    No, because I believe most behavior is genetic. Abortion doesn't encourage selfish behavior, but it does decrease it over the long-term, because it ensures the most selfish people don't pass on their genes.
    I'm not entirely sure of that, when living in a welfare state. Those inclined to want to provide a good life for their children and not live in ghetto Section 8 apartments with crappy public schools might be more inclined to have an abortion than those who just don't give a damn and are happy (or may even seek out an excuse) to leech off the taxpayers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Great Dane View Post
    It would be so much more simpler, and cheaper, for those minority women to have an IUD inserted.
    Well, that would require thinking about and planning for the future, and they aren't very inclined to do that.

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    Well, I missrepresented myself. Of course behavior is effected by environment; for instance, you can't have an abortion unless you have abortion technology and legalized abortion, both environmental influences. And people definitely decide when to have children, and how many to have, based on environmental influences.

    What would be more accurate to say would be that personality is genetically inherited, and behavior results from a person's personality interacting with their environment.

    I believe that the decision to not have any children whatsoever is the result of people's genetically inherited personality more than it is environment. Environment can limit the number of kids someone has; but for someone to say they don't want any kids whatsoever, or to just keep putting it off till they can't have kids, seems to me to be the result of some deep impulse encoded in their genes - even if such impulse is reproductively irrational. Think of it is as their need for survival, and accompanying self-interested behavior, overcoming the need to reproduce.
    Last edited by Curtis24; 02-04-2011 at 06:50 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wagnerian View Post
    So you would say that personalities, attitudes, morals, etc. are entirely genetic with no environmental influences?
    Genes or nature determine predispositions for certain attitudes, morals and actions. Environment influences whether these predispositions are activated or not. The same personalty determined by nature act differently in different situations, but different actions don't negate single personality, which could be viewed as combination of all actions in all situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis24 View Post
    I believe that the decision to not have any children whatsoever is the result of people's genetically inherited personality more than it is environment. Environment can limit the number of kids someone has; but for someone to say they don't want any kids whatsoever, or to just keep putting it off till they can't have kids, seems to me to be the result of some deep impulse encoded in their genes - even if such impulse is reproductively irrational. Think of it is as their need for survival, and accompanying self-interested behavior, overcoming the need to reproduce.
    Why is reproduction selfless?

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