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Thread: Evidence for an afterlife, or that consciousness survives physical death?

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    Anglo-Zionist Plutocrat Savant's Avatar
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    Default Evidence for an afterlife, or that consciousness survives physical death?

    This query is in no way specific to Christianity; mods feel free to move it if you feel it would be more appropriately placed elsewhere.

    I'll start the discussion by stating my own beliefs which could probably best be described as empirical agnosticism, with a soft spot for western esoterica.

    I have seen compelling arguments both pro and con, and would like to hear the views of people here. Looking forward to hearing everyone's views...


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    Never meant to be here Frederick's Avatar
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    Well...

    Christianity has not a single opinion on this but there is this general idea:

    - Martyrs = imediately resurected and put to paradise.

    - All others =
    Dead, rotten, gone. Without consciousness surviving physical death.

    But the christian hope is that god will restore him back to life, one day, far in the future. Fully restore him, not as a ghost but with blood and flesh and body and all.

    And that this will happen on a complete new earth under a complete new sky.

    I am a fan of the idea that this universe isnt a real one in the first place.

    In my imagination, this universe exists only in the RAM of a supercomputer and this computer is "god".

    (actually the only thing that fits all the things that the Bible claims about god is a computer simulating universe)

    Like:
    - The universe isn large enough that all of god could fit in it
    - the prophets say, god isnt in the sky. The spirit of god completely engulfs and soaks the universe. God is between the leaves of a tree and he is under a rock on the floor. You breath god.
    - god thinks all the thoughts of every human. He counts and registeres every hair on your body and recognizes if it falls to the floor.
    - god once claimed humans really suck and he would be glad to leave them. But he cant. He is forced to hear them, to see them to smell them. And its really anoying to him. (actually he spoke about the JEws, but well...)

    One sees, its not an admin sitting in front of a universe simulating computer that actually has all the mentioned abilities. Only the computer itself would have the abilities described.

    The modern 21th century imagination of "god" and "where" in the universe he resides. (actually not in the universe at all, but the universe resides in god)

    And now to my imagination of "afterlife":

    When one of these little characters dies, his subroutines stop thinking = he is dead.

    If "god" has an obsession with this little fellow, he may keep his character files on the D: (ead) drive.

    And one day, when he is so totaly anoyed from the Universe at hand.... he resets the universe and does a new one. A nice themepark. And then he reactivates all his favorite little fellows and looks at them smiling while they ran everywhere, mining, building... err wait this was another game.

    Of course, there is one disturbing thing about this image:
    If god is the computer, who build and controls god? And has he killed of his builders "Terminator"/"Battlestar Galactica" style?

    HOwever this is a nice story of how to accept science and religion at the same time. Science is about how the simulation works. And religion is about reality in the... err..."outside".

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    Never meant to be here Frederick's Avatar
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    Oh I mised "Evidence for an afterlife"

    Sorry, cant give you any evidence of the existance of a D: partition with brain content files of millions of dead humans.

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    I'm actually watching a Youtube video on Pim van Lommel right now. He is a cardiologist that has been doing some scientific research on near death experiences. Check it out here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOeLJ...layer_embedded

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    Now scientists (nuero-scientists) are investigating the human brain and what is the source of a human soul or consciousness to see how a human soul may go beyond existence. On many trails scientists noticed the very unique behavior of the human brain when in prayer, certain parts of the brain are stimulated in everyone while in prayer; this may be a commonly shared trait amongst all human beings when they might be communicating with a high God.

    Science has developed nuero-electrons from cells and are in the development of imitating a man-made/stimulated version of the processes of the brain in order to view the source of a soul (this was seen on the full episode of the Science Channel's 'Through the Wormhole' about the Human Brain). Whether or not religious, scientists acknowledge that there is a drive in humans that exceed beyond our existence, a curiosity of the unknown: this drive can be seen in our nuero-systems and is a one main attraction for scientific investigations into the knowledge of the human brain and what pushes us to have a consciousness or awareness other species do not posses.

    This research can help us to understand what really goes on in a human brain while in a Coma. We want to know "Hello? Is anyone in there?", and when the movements of electrons in the brain are activated while a human is trapped in their body, "What are you thinking? Who are you speaking to? Are you really aware? When will you come back?". It began with research into the human brain while in a Coma, and the results of the complexities of the brain are startling, even supportive of existing spirituality (proto-consciousness); a person could be in a Coma showing no signs of high brain activity but a few days later can uprise into consciousness from a Coma.


    [1] Through the Wormhole 2: Near Death Experience
    [2] Through the Wormhole 2: Is Death the End
    [3] Through the Wormhole 2: Final Destination for the Soul
    [4] Through the Wormhole: The God Experience
    [5]
    Dr. Newberg explains what happened [while a human is in prayer]; saying that the pictures showed "activity increase in the frontal lobe which is the front of the brain, a region that becomes active in [any] human being when one wants to focus on a particular activity", while the Parietal lobe, which is the back of the brain, showed a significant decrease in activity of the Parietal lobe and it is responsible for one's sense of place. This confirms the saying that meditation leads to losing the sense of place. Dr. Newberg commitment: "During meditation, people lose their feelings of themselves, and really feel losing the sense of place and time, and this was exactly what we saw."
    Newberg, Andrew, and Mark R. Waldman. How God Changes Your Brain: Breakthrough Findings from a Leading Neuroscientist. New York: Ballantine, 2009. Print.
    [6]
    Meditation can help with this, said Thurman, by challenging the suppressive mechanisms and allowing the more discretional aspects of the brain to express themselves — in short, changing habits of mind. In Buddhism, he said, "The role of the mind is so important … in creating the brain."
    Lin, Judy. "Buddhists, neuroscientists come to a meeting of the minds" UCLA Today. 10 May. 2010. Web.
    Last edited by Star Valley; 06-20-2011 at 07:11 AM.

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    Veteran Member beergarden's Avatar
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    there is none, get over it. You live and die, besides, why do you want more?
    life after death doesn't make sense, we all die its just like before you were born.......nothing
    Eat Your Skull Out

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    I believe that anything is possible when it comes to this. I believe that something happens to us after we die, I don't believe that we just die, nothing happens, and that's that. There are all sorts of possibilities when it comes to why we are here and what happens to us after we die. There are hundreds of different beliefs and theories when it comes to this, but perhaps the real truth is something that is completely unheard of that we can not even comprehend..

    As for reincarnation, I do believe this to be a possibility. I asked myself one day why we wouldn't be able to remember a past life if we reincarnate. I then realized that we can't even remember things in our own lifetime, we can't even remember most of the dreams that we have when we fall asleep. If you were to ask an adult person to describe everything about their childhood in detail, what they did on specific days, how they were feeling, etc, of course they would hardly be able to describe such specific information, for most people the only times that they are able to completely remember times from their childhood are times that meant something to them in some way, that effected them heavily whether it be good or bad.. This being said, I can easily see how we could reincarnate and not remember anything about a past life.

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    In the West the goal is to find immortality, in the East it is to get rid of the damn thing (in a way).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Savant View Post
    This query is in no way specific to Christianity; mods feel free to move it if you feel it would be more appropriately placed elsewhere.

    I'll start the discussion by stating my own beliefs which could probably best be described as empirical agnosticism, with a soft spot for western esoterica.

    I have seen compelling arguments both pro and con, and would like to hear the views of people here. Looking forward to hearing everyone's views...
    What do you mean by empirical agnosticism? Elaborate please.

    I have never seen any evidence of an afterlife. Is there an afterlife? It's possible, but it's not possible to conclude with certainty there is an afterlife until we have concrete evidence for such a place.
    What had I thought I was, a righteous partner to the judges and executioners of Paris who strike down the poor for crimes that the rich commit every day? The Vampire Lestat, p. 135

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    Never meant to be here Frederick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forrester View Post
    In the West the goal is to find immortality, in the East it is to get rid of the damn thing (in a way).
    Question is, where is the border between East and West then?

    After all Christianity is a middle eastern religion.

    MAybe its like this:

    West (old European pagans) = be at war and live eternal
    Middle (Christianity, Judaism etc) = be at peace and live eternal
    East Asian (Budism etc) = be at peace and get lost into nothingness

    So it has the peace from the east and the eternal life from the west?

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