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Thread: The Normans

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    Senior Member Angus's Avatar
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    Default The Normans


    Brief Overview
    It was in 911 that Rollo led a group of warriors and raiders from Scandinavia to France to force the French king, King Charles to give up French territory. The price King Charles demanded was that Rollo and his men become his subjects and each takes an oath of loyalty to France and Himself. Rollo did just that, but according to legend when he was required to kiss the foot of King Charles, as a condition of the treaty. When King Charles extended his foot, Rollo refused to embarrass himself and ordered one of his men to do so in his place. That warrior then forced Charles’s foot to his own mouth making the king fall in the mud. Although he had taken an oath of loyalty to the French King, Rollo considered himself to be an independent ruler and aggressively increased the territory under his control.

    Technically, Normandy was a duchy of France, but the Norman Dukes ruled their territory as if it were an independent kingdom with very little interference from the French king. It was in the 11th century that Normandy had become one of the most powerful regions in the western world. In 1066, the great-great-great-grandson of Rollo, William the Bastard, also known as William the Conqueror defeated Harold Godwinson, thus conquering England. The history of William’s reign in England, and his predecessors would pave the way for the feudal system to develop into a complete political monarchy.

    The word Norman means "Northmen"

    Theatres of operation
    Southern Italy: 999–1017. Unlike the conquest of England, the conquest of South Italy took decades and numerous battles to achieve victory. Many territories were conquered independently, and were later unified. Overall, this invasion was “spur of the moment” being unplanned and unorganized.

    Wales: 1067-1081). Originally King William had no desire to enter a hostile relationship with the Welsh, but the Welsh King, Gruffudd ap Llywelyn, proved to be a constant thorn in William’s side, eventually forcing his hand.

    Ireland: 1169 & 1171: Diarmaid MacMurrough was removed as King of Leinster in the 1160s. Enraged, the former King sought military assistance from King Henry II to retake his country.

    Albania 1100 - 1300 : Lead by Robert Guiscard, the Normas obtained Papal consent and started a campaign to conquer the Balkan peninsula, which would serve as a foothold for the west and the Church. The Norman invaders devastated everything in their path.


    Other influences:

    The Normans came into Scotland, constructing castles and creating noble families that would provide some future kings, one of the most notable ones being Robert the Bruce. Numerous Scottish clans were actually founded by the Normans aswell:
    -Hays
    -Lyons / Lyon
    -Cummings
    -Frasers
    -Bruce
    -Stewart
    -Sinclair
    -Montgomery
    -Stewart



    Over time, several lowland clans intermarried with Normans who moved north, introducing Teutonic Norman family traditions and social structures into the native Gaelic traditions.

    Langauge
    The Normans spoke a dialect of French called Norman. Since the Normans were vikings who settled in France, they introduced a vast ammount of scandinavian influences to the language. One of the many differences between Norman and Standard French was in the GW sound at the beginning of words. In Norman, this was pronounced W, but in the rest of France as GW(later g).

    English = Norman = French
    cabbage < caboche = chou
    candle < caundèle = chandelle
    castle < caste(l) = château
    cauldron < caudron = chaudron
    causeway < cauchie = chaussée
    catch < cachi = chasser
    cater < acater = acheter
    wicket < viquet = guichet
    plank < pllanque = planche
    pocket < pouquette = poche
    fork < fouorque = fourche
    garden < gardin = jardin
    cattle < *capte(l) = cheptel

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    Junior Member TheCelt's Avatar
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    Default

    -Bruce
    -Stewart
    -Sinclair
    -Montgomery
    -Stewart

    i am a direct descendant of all of these (just recently found this out).
    Y-DNA- Haplogroup R1b1b2a1a2e (L21+) ISOGG TREE= R1b1b2a1a2e (2011) was R1b1b2a1a2f (2010)............FTDNA TREE=R1b1b2a1b5

    MTDNA- Haplogroup H

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by olav View Post
    Langauge
    The Normans spoke a dialect of French called Norman. Since the Normans were vikings who settled in France, they introduced a vast ammount of scandinavian influences to the language. One of the many differences between Norman and Standard French was in the GW sound at the beginning of words. In Norman, this was pronounced W, but in the rest of France as GW(later g).

    English = Norman = French
    cabbage < caboche = chou
    candle < caundèle = chandelle
    castle < caste(l) = château
    cauldron < caudron = chaudron
    causeway < cauchie = chaussée
    catch < cachi = chasser
    cater < acater = acheter
    wicket < viquet = guichet
    plank < pllanque = planche
    pocket < pouquette = poche
    fork < fouorque = fourche
    garden < gardin = jardin
    cattle < *capte(l) = cheptel
    Funny as the English words appears magically closer when you compared to the Norman dialect rather than modern standard French.

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    Junior Member TheCelt's Avatar
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    could be related to william the conquerer and his victory at the battle of hastings, and the influx of normans to england afterwards.
    Y-DNA- Haplogroup R1b1b2a1a2e (L21+) ISOGG TREE= R1b1b2a1a2e (2011) was R1b1b2a1a2f (2010)............FTDNA TREE=R1b1b2a1b5

    MTDNA- Haplogroup H

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    Yes Norman dialect significantly changed Anglo-Saxon. Yet my point was that modern French has known changes as well as thus ancient French was closer to Norman than the French spoken nowdays.

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    Veteran Member aherne's Avatar
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    The Normans spoke a dialect of French called Norman.
    Actually, Normans spoke an Oil dialect which happens to be intelligible to Parisian (unlike for example Franche-Comptois), but it is not derived of it and traces back directly to Gallo-Romance (the language recorded by Strassburger Oaths).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Portukalos View Post
    Yes Norman dialect significantly changed Anglo-Saxon. Yet my point was that modern French has known changes as well as thus ancient French was closer to Norman than the French spoken nowdays.
    Yes, and certain Norman loanwords in English retain some of the archaic features associated with medieval Oïl dialects. But the list of English - Norman - French words provided is very misleading.

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    I have Stewart in my ancestry. I have other French/Germanic connections through the surname Burgoyne.

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    Tracking Norman lineage can be tricky, because after the Norman conquest of England, much of the existing Anglo-Saxon aristocracy took Norman surnames.

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    Quote Originally Posted by byrnecres View Post
    I have Stewart in my ancestry. I have other French/Germanic connections through the surname Burgoyne.
    Any relation to the Burgoyne of Saratoga fame?

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