PETITION: We Won't Go Back to the Back Alley

[The Lawspeaker]

Wow, you even subscribe to American newsletters? This America obsession of yours is really intense... For some reason I think you'd object if some American had an equivalent obsession with Holland.

The newsletter itself is international, troll.

[Savant]

Not really... just one factor- sexual intercourse...

Besides, we need the children. Our birthrate is dangerously low. Unless you want to go the way of Europe and be forced to import millions of 3rd worlders to sustain your social security model (which is built upon the presumption that people will always breed at at least replacement rate). As of now, we have the luxury of being able to deport all the 3rd worlders and function fine. Europe is fucked because their social model depends on them. Late term abortions should be banned on ethical grounds, if you know the first thing about fetal development, but it's also very much in our collective interest as a nation.

I don't understand this attitude. Ignoring the fact that there are a million different factors that could lead to an unwanted pregnancy, should we not allow people to receive treatment for the consequences of irresponsible behavior?

[la bombe]

So, you at least admit that you manufactured the definition of "late term"... Either way, you have failed to even approach, much less refute the notion that late term abortions should be banned, medical issues not withstanding. If so very few abortions even occur at or beyond "late term" however you want to define it, all the more reason for them to be banned...

I didn't "manufacture" anything, thanks, I was referring to the comment I was replying to.

If you absolutely must know my take on that issue, I am 100% "pro-choice" with zero exceptions and I feel that decisions regarding late-term abortion are best left to a woman and her medical healthcare provider, not me, you, or a bunch of dudes from Congress. I am not an expert on each and every fetus currently in gestation, nor am I the one supporting it within my body, so I can't decide what's best.

And I'm sick of rape/incest related abortions and late-term abortions being used as red herrings to drum up support from either side. All it does is distract from the real issue of reproductive rights. The simple fact is, the overwhelming majority of abortions occur A) in the first trimester of pregnancy and B) as a result of consensual sexual acts. IMO, it's more an issue of bodily autonomy.

[Loddfafner]

Shouldn't feminists and eugenicists hold hands and call for free abortion on demand?

[Savant]

Yep, still a failure to refute the notion that late term abortions should be banned... What instead? Just claim ignorance of course!!

Your response was essentially that you know little to nothing about pregnancy or fetal development, but have a position on it anyways... You know nothing about it, so it should be allowed... Brilliant!!! March on captain!!!

I didn't "manufacture" anything, thanks, I was referring to the comment I was replying to.

If you absolutely must know my take on that issue, I am 100% "pro-choice" with zero exceptions and I feel that decisions regarding late-term abortion are best left to a woman and her medical healthcare provider, not me, you, or a bunch of dudes from Congress. I am not an expert on each and every fetus currently in gestation, nor am I the one supporting it within my body, so I can't decide what's best.

And I'm sick of rape/incest related abortions and late-term abortions being used as red herrings to drum up support from either side. All it does is distract from the real issue of reproductive rights. The simple fact is, the overwhelming majority of abortions occur A) in the first trimester of pregnancy and B) as a result of consensual sexual acts. IMO, it's more an issue of bodily autonomy.

[SwordoftheVistula]

If the 'GOP' were to make an effort to outlaw abortion completely they'd actually go up in my estimation.

They'd do it if they could, except our Supreme Court has blocked such laws since 1972 (abortion was pretty much illegal prior to then). If not for the Supreme Court, abortion would have been totally outlawed a decade or so ago with GW Bush as President and the Republicans in control of Congress, plus many Democrats from 'working class' districts who are opposed to abortion.

Is it really that hard to remember to take a pill everyday or have an IUD inserted?

There's a lot of women too lazy or irresponsible to take pills. I'd rather they have the last ditch resort to terminate the pregnancy than not.

Do you have to believe in God to object to the murder of a 6-month fetus in the womb? And it would have to be killed in the womb because it would be murder if the fetus slipped out alive and then was killed.

as if 23rd weeks isn't fairly mature in fetal development, with the fetus responding to sensory stimulation, voices even reacting to light... Indeed many of these fetuses could actually survive with incubation if they were extracted rather than aborted...

Under Roman law, the 'life' of a child did not vest until 2 years after birth.

Ummm... last time I checked, that was illegal. Abortions are performed in the first trimester.

Not all of them. Our Supreme Court has now allowed states to impose some regulations on 3rd trimester abortion, but total bans are not allowed.

Besides, we need the children. Our birthrate is dangerously low.

Not these ones!

The disproportionate amount of abortions in the US are to non-European women, and that is not counting pregnancies resulting from interracial relationships by white women. Even amongst the whites who have abortions, they are a mix of lower class 'white trash' and irresponsible airhead sluts. None of these are the type of people we want raising children. These kids/women will just end up on welfare. There's been studies which show a drop in crime resulting from the legalization of abortion, I would guess that the shift of the white electorate away from the left-populist-statism found in the lower classes of whites also is related.

Unless you want to go the way of Europe and be forced to import millions of 3rd worlders to sustain your social security model (which is built upon the presumption that people will always breed at at least replacement rate).

Well that is true that the government maintained 'social security' model provides a huge impetus to import immigrants. However, it would be better to block them off, especially since they do not pay many taxes anyways. The Social Security problem may eventually have to be resolved Egypt-style when it gets to the point where those too old & feeble to resist are able to outvote the younger productive population, but can't do much beyond that. At any rate, those aborted are unlikely to become productive citizens, more likely another burden on the welfare state.

[Joe McCarthy]

Shouldn't feminists and eugenicists hold hands and call for free abortion on demand?

Perhaps, just as feminists and Evangelicals can hold hands on some issues... but then the emphasis should be put primarily on traditional values like responsibility and virtue so we can see things like an enhanced birthrate, not on trying to keep poor and dark people from giving birth. The whole feminist paradigm is a juvenile fixation. It is reflective of what Schopenhauer had to say about how women really never grow up. First they neuter the male's natural responsibility in providing for the young, then they expect the man, as symbolized by the state, to step in with a motley of expensive and disastrous social programs to remedy social malice they helped create. The very idea of whining to the government so as to have one's fetus snuffed out, regardless of the circumstances, should be a priori repellent. I've never understood this logic that the child should be punished for the sins of the father anyway, but forcing people to go against their conscience and pay for such a thing through tax dollars, is both arrogant and indicative of a maliciously anti-Christian worldview.