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Thread: China's new world order

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    Default China's new world order

    http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/2...der-ar-801389/

    WASHINGTON --
    By all appearances, last week's visit of Chinese President Hu Jintao to Washington changed little in the lopsided American-Chinese relationship. What we have is a system that methodically transfers American jobs, technology and financial power to China in return for only modest Chinese support for important U.S. geopolitical goals: the suppression of Iran's and North Korea's nuclear weapons programs. American officials act as if there's not much they can do to change this.

    It's true that the United States and China have huge common interests in peace and prosperity. Two-way trade (now about $500 billion annually) can provide low-cost consumer goods to Americans and foodstuffs and advanced manufactures to the Chinese. But China's and America's goals differ radically. The United States wants to broaden the post-World War II international order based on mutually advantageous trade. By contrast, China pursues a new global order in which its needs come first — one in which it subsidizes exports, controls essential imports (oil, food, minerals) and compels the transfer of advanced technology.

    Naturally, the United States opposes this sort of system, but that's where we're headed. Clashing goals have trumped shared interests.

    Start with distorted trade. The New York Times recently reported that Evergreen, a maker of solar panels, is shutting its Massachusetts factory, moving production to a joint venture in China and laying off 800 U.S. workers. Despite $43 million in Massachusetts state aid, Evergreen's CEO said that China's subsidies — mainly low-interest loans from state-controlled banks — were too great to pass up.

    Thus subsidized, Chinese solar-panel production rose fiftyfold from 2005 to 2010, reports GTM, a market analysis company. Cheap bank loans to solar companies total about $30 billion, but it's unclear whether they'll be repaid in full, notes GTM analyst Shyam Mehta. "It could be free money," he says. China's share of global production jumped from 9 percent to 48 percent. In 2010, about 95 percent of China's solar panels were exported.

    With details changed, similar stories apply to many industries. The undervaluation of China's currency, the renminbi, by 15 percent or more magnifies the advantage. Jobs shift to China from factories in the United States, Europe and elsewhere.

    Next, consider technology transfer. Big multinational firms want to be in China, but the cost of doing so is often the loss of important technology through required licensing agreements, mandatory joint ventures, reverse engineering or outright theft. American software companies estimate that 85 percent to 90 percent of their products in China are pirated.

    Writing in the Harvard Business Review, Thomas Hout and Pankaj Ghemawat cite China's high-speed rail projects. Initially, foreign firms such as Germany's Siemens got most contracts; in 2009, the government began requiring foreign firms to enter into minority joint ventures with Chinese companies. Having mastered the "core technologies," Chinese companies have captured 80 percent or more of the local market and compete with foreign firms for exports. The same thing is occurring in commercial aircraft. China is building a competitor to the Boeing 737 and the Airbus 320; General Electric has entered into a joint venture that will supply the avionics, the electronics that guide the aircraft.

    Finally, there's finance. China's foreign exchange reserves — earned mainly through massive export surpluses — approached $2.9 trillion at year-end 2010. These vast holdings (which increase by hundreds of billions annually) enable China to expand its influence by sprinkling low-cost loans around the world or making strategic investments in raw materials and companies. The Financial Times recently reported that China — through the China Export-Import Bank and the China Development Bank — has "lent more money to other developing countries over the past two years than the World Bank."

    It's important to make several qualifications. First, Americans shouldn't blame China for all our economic problems, which are mostly homegrown. Indeed, the ferocity of the financial crisis discredited U.S. economic leadership and emboldened China to pursue its narrow interests more aggressively than ever. Second, the point should not be (as Chinese allege) to "contain" China's growth; the point should be to modify its economic strategy, which is predatory. It comes at others' expense.

    The U.S. response has been mostly carrots — to pretend that sweet reason will convince China to alter its policies. Last week, Presidents Obama and Hu exchanged largely meaningless pledges of "cooperation." Alan Tonelson of the U.S. Business and Industry Council, a group of manufacturers, says U.S. policy verges on "appeasement." We need sticks. The practical difficulty is being tougher without triggering a trade war that weakens the global recovery. Still, it's possible to do something. The Treasury could brand China a currency manipulator, which it clearly is. The administration could move more forcefully against Chinese subsidies. America's present passivity encourages China's new world order, with fateful consequences for the United States and everyone else.

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    Trump has suggested atleast a 25% tax on all products imported from China, this might atleast thin the flow of money and increase incentive for American manufacturing. They've kept their currency so low that American companies simply can't compete at this point. Short of nuking China, I really don't know what the best solution is.
    "It makes no difference what men think of war...war endures. As well ask men what they think of stone. War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him. The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner." - "Blood Meridian" by Cormac McCarthy

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    I immediately recall this:

    [YOUTUBE]6CqC-I7FiQw[/YOUTUBE]

    And then I remind myself who's in charge of the so-called Anglo-American world order, and come to the conclusion I desire neither on equal levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by TIMES-DISPATCH STAFF
    The United States wants to broaden the post-World War II international order based on mutually advantageous trade. By contrast, China pursues a new global order in which its needs come first — one in which it subsidizes exports, controls essential imports (oil, food, minerals) and compels the transfer of advanced technology.
    And then I remember the folks who would swear by their life that we were not already living under a new world order.
    "Free, do you call yourself? Then I would hear your ruling thought, and not merely that you have escaped from a yoke. Are you one of those who had the right to escape from a yoke? Many a one has cast away his last worth when he has cast away his servitude. Free from what? What does that matter to Zarathustra! But your fiery eyes should tell me: free for what?" - Thus Spoke Zarathustra


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    Quote Originally Posted by Egbert View Post
    Trump has suggested atleast a 25% tax on all products imported from China, this might atleast thin the flow of money and increase incentive for American manufacturing. They've kept their currency so low that American companies simply can't compete at this point. Short of nuking China, I really don't know what the best solution is.
    Japan becomes very key. We'll have to consider letting them re-arm, which itself is dangerous. I'd say there's little chance of China and Japan teaming up though, as both populations hate each other on a visceral level.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Veritas Æquitas View Post
    [YOUTUBE]6CqC-I7FiQw[/YOUTUBE]
    Does one of them fart at around 2:37?

    Apologies, Joe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Veritas Æquitas View Post
    I immediately recall this:

    [YOUTUBE]6CqC-I7FiQw[/YOUTUBE]

    And then I remind myself who's in charge of the so-called Anglo-American world order, and come to the conclusion I desire neither on equal levels.



    And then I remember the folks who would swear by their life that we were not already living under a new world order.
    A world order is merely an international system run under certain rules. The American world order is based on trade and trying to encourage mutual understanding and peace. The British dominated world order from the Congress of Vienna to the Great War was similar. It took conspiracy theorists to turn 'new world order' into something sinister.

    In any case, anyone who thinks a Chinese dominated world order is on par with an American order is one of two things: a moron, or a Chinaman.

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    The new world order means different things to different people but for those who expect to be in control of it means the same thing. It means all the world under their control. The people are too dumb to rule themselves, therefor they feel it's their role to rule, along with the destruction of every arbitrary power that can separately and of it's single choice disturb the peace of the world. It is not new, and it is not order.

    [YOUTUBE]7a9Syi12RJo[/YOUTUBE]


    Quote Originally Posted by Joe McCarthy View Post
    It took conspiracy theorists to turn 'new world order' into something sinister.
    It absolutely is sinister. You're naive, blind or uninformed to think otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe McCarthy View Post
    A world order is merely an international system run under certain rules.
    As preservationists this should be at the top of the list of things that must be resisted if we are to survive. Any fantasies you have about how your white American race is going to be on-top and in control you can forget it. They're not interested. They want you, your people, country and traditions to be made illegal, and die. This is what the new world order is, and always has been about for centuries, and using ethnic cleansing by migratory tactics is just one of the age old tricks of this international system.
    Last edited by Sol Invictus; 03-02-2011 at 08:58 PM.
    "Free, do you call yourself? Then I would hear your ruling thought, and not merely that you have escaped from a yoke. Are you one of those who had the right to escape from a yoke? Many a one has cast away his last worth when he has cast away his servitude. Free from what? What does that matter to Zarathustra! But your fiery eyes should tell me: free for what?" - Thus Spoke Zarathustra


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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe McCarthy View Post
    Japan becomes very key. We'll have to consider letting them re-arm, which itself is dangerous. I'd say there's little chance of China and Japan teaming up though, as both populations hate each other on a visceral level.
    I would support allowing Japan to re-arm, obviously not including nuclear capabilities, if it would help to contain and ideally eliminate Chinese power and I agree that it probably would. Much like Israel in the Middle East...Japan could act as an allied forward base of operations in the region.

    I would also add, that if the situation did become militarized, that India might play a role. The cold war between India and China tends to be overlooked, Indian officials have been quoted as saying all of their nukes are pointed at China.
    Last edited by Egbert; 03-02-2011 at 08:34 PM.
    "It makes no difference what men think of war...war endures. As well ask men what they think of stone. War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him. The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner." - "Blood Meridian" by Cormac McCarthy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Egbert View Post
    Trump has suggested atleast a 25% tax on all products imported from China, this might atleast thin the flow of money and increase incentive for American manufacturing.
    I doubt that's gonna happen any time soon, since most of American manufacturing is currently outsourced to China (and elsewhere).
    They've kept their currency so low that American companies simply can't compete at this point.
    Yep, and they know they're in a position in which they can get away with that. The US is pretty much powerless here, and is bound to remain powerless unless whoever rules your country acquires some bargaining chips.
    Short of nuking China, I really don't know what the best solution is.
    Your peoples' economies have become so intertwined that it wouldn't probably be that different from nuking your own country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Egbert View Post
    I would also add, that if the situation did become militarized, that India might play a role. The cold war between India and China tends to be overlooked, Indian officials have been quoted as saying all of their nukes are pointed at China.
    Yes, India is key as well. They have several boundary disputes and have been enemies since the Sino-Indian War in 1962.

    Basically we're in the same situation Britain was in prior to the Great War - a declining power trying to stop a rising power. In that case Britain outmaneuvered Germany and made alliances with three old foes - the US, France, and Russia - all within nine years. If there is one thing America has mastered over the years it is diplomacy, which is heavily WASP dominated, I might add. I doubt China will be able to turn states like Japan and India, though ironically, I'm more worried about Europe...

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