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Thread: The sound of Romance

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    How do you guys perceive Corsican?

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    Member Arthur Scharrenhans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepytigers View Post
    How do you guys perceive Corsican?
    It's a central dialect, but it sounds like a strange mix between Sardinian and Southern Italian. Somehow it doesn't sound fully native-like from an Italian perspective, but I don't hear a direct French influence.

  3. #193
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    Piemonteis and sicilian haven't absolutely nothing in common, except the common latin derivation.

    It's a totally foreigner language to my ears.

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    Franc-mâchon Mesrine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Scharrenhans View Post
    It's a central dialect, but it sounds like a strange mix between Sardinian and Southern Italian. Somehow it doesn't sound fully native-like from an Italian perspective, but I don't hear a direct French influence.
    Agreed. Corsican sounds alien to French ears, but it doesn't really sound Italian either.

    [YOUTUBE]VRbJjJ1YE0g[/YOUTUBE]

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    Spectateur Tel Errant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Scharrenhans View Post
    Right, but English is from a different language family and for all its peculiarities it still has (as I argued elsewhere) typically Germanic phonology & phonotactics, so no wonder that French loans were phonetically altered, while the phonology of Piedmontese, at least on paper, is maybe more similar to that of French.
    Of course. I forgot about the phonotactics.
    English was to examplify that some loans do not change the perception much, Piemontese might be more similar to French there's still a long way from meussieu to monsu.
    And that about being from a same linguistic family making the phonology similar is maybe true in theory but in practice like I said some French Canadians can have such a strong accent you cannot understand what they say.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Scharrenhans View Post
    Thanks for your answer anyway, it confirms to me that intonation is probably the single biggest component in accents. up
    You're welcome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Perduellio View Post
    Piemonteis and sicilian haven't absolutely nothing in common, except the common latin derivation.

    It's a totally foreigner language to my ears.
    That's because as an Italian you're more used to the differences between the different dialects. In France the Provençal accent is one of the most marked and mocked and yet you found it 'arpitanised'.

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    Veteran Member Ouistreham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Scharrenhans View Post
    I'm curious about this point - doesn't Piedmontese sound at least a bit French to French ears? I ask this because, in addition to being structurally close to French as all Gallo-Italic dialects are due to shared isoglosses, it has a lot of French loans and direct influences in lexicon, idioms, etc., that set apart even from the rest of Gallo-Italic.
    Piedmontese sounds absolutely foreign, and just as Italian as Venetian or Sicilian.

    But if the question was "Of all Italian dialects, which one sounds most compatible with Provençal?", the answer would be "Piedmontese".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ouistreham View Post
    Piedmontese sounds absolutely foreign, and just as Italian as Venetian or Sicilian.

    But if the question was "Of all Italian dialects, which one sounds most compatible with Provençal?", the answer would be "Piedmontese".
    Proto-piedmonteis (X- XI centuries) was a kind of occitarpitan language.

    After, become more "lombardized" due to Savoie expansion in western padanian plane.

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    Banned Libertas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesrine View Post
    Agreed. Corsican sounds alien to French ears, but it doesn't really sound Italian either.

    [YOUTUBE]VRbJjJ1YE0g[/YOUTUBE]
    It does sound Italian to a certain extent especially in its vocabulary.

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    My Countship is not of this world Comte Arnau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tel Errant View Post
    I was referring to the melody of the language that's very 'spanish' to me, just like Piemontese or Toscan or Sicilian sound invariably Italian. That's the flow, the tone, the rythm, the intonation... each one of the three zone has its own musicality, but that's basically what we were talking about above with the uniformisation of prononciations/intonations/accents.
    I'm starting to think that what really happens here is that people only have in mind the intonation of the major languages, so they find languages they don't know or haven't heard much closer to another just because they're far from their own. And it doesn' necessarily have to do with being a language from a sovereing state, as many probably don't know how Romanian intonation sounds like either. So you hear things like, they sound Russian and the like.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tel Errant View Post
    You may think that I'm exaggerating but like I said in that one year old post of mine, despite its closeness to French spoken Catalan is less understandable to me than spoken Italian which belongs to another branch of the romance languages.
    That is because Italian is the clearest of all Romance languages, so it's the most understandable for all of us. The Oilitan-Arpitan, Occitan-Catalan and Rhaeto-Padanian groups are obscure because they reduce their vowels a lot. Portuguese does it too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tel Errant View Post
    And well, there are peoples in Québec who speak with such a strong accent that you need subtitles to understand what they say, yet they speak French. There surely are similar examples in the Spanish speaking world. Intonations and accents do play a huge role in comprehension.
    I agree. Although never as much as to hinder intercomprehension.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tel Errant View Post
    It's indeed much easier to understand than the pa negre video. They also speak slower, it helps.
    Interesting. Yes, I think it's more because of the pace and the more formal context rather than because of the intonation. The other video was from a film and many swear words and idioms were being said, so that makes things difficult.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tel Errant View Post
    That's the modern world, those languages just died of their uselessness, c'est la vie, c'est comme ça. As long as there was relatively autonomous counties and duchies they had some legitimity and utility but that time is over now. Sustain them today and you'll feed the separatists, you'll have to give each region special competances in fiscality, education, health, etc, some fanatics will start bombing. I don't want that for my country, Spain is the countermodel in that regard. I'm a centralist, one country, one language, you can learn and speak how many dialects you want, but don't ask for special rights.
    Nobody is perfect.
    < La Catalogne peut se passer de l'univers entier, et ses voisins ne peuvent se passer d'elle. > Voltaire

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