The sound of Romance

[Peyrol]

Piemonteis language

a very nice song
[YOUTUBE]2dQRl58x9Lo[/YOUTUBE]

a parody
[YOUTUBE]3UI-ImLwlnA[/YOUTUBE]

[Bard]

Apparently the piedmonteis word for "Sir" is "Monsu" which is pretty close to "monsieur".

[Peyrol]

Apparently the piedmonteis word for "Sir" is "Monsu" which is pretty close to "monsieur".

I can show you many francesisms.

Surtì (go out)
Tombè (to fall)
Mison (house)
Pom (apple)
Travajè (to work)
Crava (goat)
Bòsch (wood)
Madamin (Lady)
Monsù (Sir, Lord, man)
Amusè (have fun)
Sombr (dark)
Sagrìn (preoccupation)
Pais (town)
Mersì (thank you)
Drapò (flag)
Frambosa (raspberry)
....

and many more....(see this)

[Comte Arnau]

Some I'd say are not Francesisms, but common words between the French, the Catalans and North Italians.

I can show you many francesisms.

Surtì (go out) In Catalan, sortir
Tombè (to fall) tombar
Mison (house)
Pom (apple) poma
Travajè (to work) treballar
Crava (goat)
Bòsch (wood) bosc
Madamin (Lady)
Monsù (Sir, Lord, man)
Amusè (have fun)
Sombr (dark)
Sagrìn (preoccupation)
Pais (town)
Mersì (thank you) mercès
Drapò (flag)
Frambosa (raspberry)
....

I like how we, Gallo-Romans, eat the final vowels.

[alzo zero]

In my neck of the woods, "to work" is "laurà" (vs. standard Italian "lavorare") so we don't share that with you guys. On the other hand in Southern Italy they also use something like "travagghiu" I think, perhaps a remnant of the French colonisation. A word like our "burlà" ("to fall") is quite different from both Italian and Piemontese. "Bosc" is almost the same in Italian "bosco", but "mersì" and "monsù" do sound like French and I don't think they are used anywhere east of Piemonte.

[Peyrol]

In my neck of the woods, "to work" is "laurà" (vs. standard Italian "lavorare") so we don't share that with you guys. On the other hand in Southern Italy they also use something like "travagghiu" I think, perhaps a remnant of the French colonisation. A word like our "burlà" ("to fall") is quite different from both Italian and Piemontese. "Bosc" is almost the same in Italian "bosco", but "mersì" and "monsù" do sound like French and I don't think they are used anywhere east of Piemonte.

We use these words in Torino.

Also, is used the word "Cerea" to say "Hello".

Also, in Cuneo province the use the word "pas" before the phrases for the negation is quite common.


The word "travajè" derives form the vulgar latin "Travaius", while the italian "Lavorare" and the bergamask/brescian "Laurà" derives from the classic latin word "Labor".

[alzo zero]

Also, is used the word "Cerea" to say "Hello".

In my area Cerea is a surname...

Also, in Cuneo province the use the word "pas" before the phrases for the negation is quite common.

I'd heard of it and as a matter of fact I was going to ask you if it was true. I have a friend from Bra but she doesn't speak a word of dialect.

[Peyrol]

In my area Cerea is a surname...


I'd heard of it and as a matter of fact I was going to ask you if it was true. I have a friend from Bra but she doesn't speak a word of dialect.

Yes, in the Val Germanasca and Val Maira, and also in the Saluzzo's valleys, is quite common.


Anyway,

[YOUTUBE]Sx8rpJLVW_Q[/YOUTUBE]

[Ouistreham]

I can show you many francesisms.

Surtì (go out)
Tombè (to fall)
Mison (house)
Pom (apple)
Travajè (to work)
Crava (goat)
Bòsch (wood)
Madamin (Lady)
Monsù (Sir, Lord, man)
Amusè (have fun)
Sombr (dark)
Sagrìn (preoccupation)
Pais (town)
Mersì (thank you)
Drapò (flag)
Frambosa (raspberry)
....

Monsu and drapo are obviously French (or Franco-Provençal) borrowings.

Most of the other words are found in Occitan as well, and some in Occitan only. Especially crava : goat is in French chèvre (Franco-Provençal: [t]chièvre/a), in Occitan cabra but it is often modified by metathesis in craba.

Also, in Cuneo province the use the word "pas" before the phrases for the negation is quite common.

Uuh? "Before the phrases", or after the verb?

At any rate, the fact that one of the most illogical French phenomens (the use of pas only as a negation adverb in colloquial speech) has pervaded in Occitan and made inroads into Catalan and Piedmontese is stunning to say the least.

[Comte Arnau]

In my neck of the woods, "to work" is "laurà" (vs. standard Italian "lavorare") so we don't share that with you guys. On the other hand in Southern Italy they also use something like "travagghiu" I think, perhaps a remnant of the French colonisation.

In 'the West', <laborare> is used with the meaning of 'work the land, cultivate' (French 'labourer', Catalan 'llaurar', Spanish 'labrar', Portuguese 'lavrar').

I wouldn't say 'travailler' is French, as it's also used in West Iberia ('trabajar', 'trabalhar').

"Bosc" is almost the same in Italian "bosco",

Spanish and Portuguese also have 'bosque', but they took it from Catalan-Occitan 'bosc'. They used 'selva' before, which now they use for a thick wood. Aragonese still uses 'selva' as wood.

Monsu and drapo are obviously French (or Franco-Provençal) borrowings.

I think so. In Catalan, the words 'monsenyor', 'mossènyer' o 'mossèn' were used first to address high classes but now they're only use as religious titles. A mossèn is a priest today, for instance.

Most of the other words are found in Occitan as well, and some in Occitan only. Especially crava : goat is in French chèvre (Franco-Provençal: [t]chièvre/a), in Occitan cabra but it is often modified by metathesis in craba.

I agree. Aragonese also has metathesis: crapa, craba. I'd say metathesis is specially a Gascon-Aragonese thing.

Uuh? "Before the phrases", or after the verb?

At any rate, the fact that one of the most illogical French phenomens (the use of pas only as a negation adverb in colloquial speech) has pervaded in Occitan and made inroads into Catalan and Piedmontese is stunning to say the least.

Pas is used in Catalan to reinforce the negative:

No ho sé pas (I don't know it at all).
Vindràs? No pas! (Will you come? No way!)

It is also found in Aragonese.

Another more uncommon Gallo-Roman negative particle is: point (in French) / pon (in Aragonese) / punt (in Old Catalan).

French: Le cœur a ses raisons que la raison ne connaît point. (The heart has its reasons that reason knows not.)
Western Aragonese: D'ixo no en queda pon. (Of this, nothing is left.)

Also common to the Gallo-Roman languages is the use of guère / g(u)aire for a negative quantity:

He hardly ate anything.
French: Il n'a guère mangé.
Occitan: A pas gaire manjat.
Catalan: No ha menjat gaire.
Aragonese: No ha minchato guaire.

For that use, both Italian and West Iberian (Spanish&Portuguese) would use molto/mucho/muito.