Polish minority in Romania

[Genovefa]

Back in the 1400s you would say "panie" ("Sir") only to a nobleman. And "kmiocie" ("yokel") to a peasant.

But in the 1900s everyone would be addressed "panie", so it doesn't prove noble origins for this time period.

If he was of noble origin, there should be a Coat of Arms associated with his surname and his extended family.

But owning land in the 20th century doesn't make you a noble. Rockefeller was not a noble, for example.

As I said there should be a Coat of Arms and it should be possible to confirm noble origins.

But during the 19th century most of Polish nobility lost their status under Russian/Austrian/Prussian rules.

Well I also said he could've been just a wealthy man. Do you think you could find something if I gave you my family name (if you are willing to, as well)? I think he had the same, maybe written differently, because my father said he heard about a distant rich relative of ours from Poland whom the relatives he got in touch with told him about, and she had the same surname.

[Peterski]

http://otworzksiazke.pl/images/ksiaz..._XIX_wieku.pdf

^^^
Data from this book, around year 1795 (the last partition of Poland), Polish nobility in areas annexed by Russia was at least 250,970 males (multiply x 2 to include women and you get over 500,000). Russian historian Kabuzan estimated 560,000 Polish nobility in Russia in 1795.

Please note that Russian western border in 1795 was the same as modern eastern border of Poland.

So we are talking about 560,000 Polish nobles all of whom lived to the east of present-day Poland.

Most of those people were de-nobilitated (lost their noble status) during the 1800s under Tsar's rule.

[Genovefa]

Do you have a photo of him?

That's the hard part, I only know about his physical appearance from what my family members have seen of him, it appears he hasn't left any pictures in Romania. The only other thing I know apart from what I've already stated is that he had long hair, but it isn't helpful

[Peterski]

Russian Tsars deprived most of Polish nobles of their status, because after Russia annexed Polish lands in 1772-1795, Polish nobility in the Russian Empire was more numerous than Russian nobility.so they had to fix that by reducing the number of Polish nobles.

[Genovefa]

http://otworzksiazke.pl/images/ksiaz..._XIX_wieku.pdf

^^^
Data from this book, around year 1795 (the last partition of Poland), Polish nobility in areas annexed by Russia was at least 250,970 males (multiply x 2 to include women and you get over 500,000). Russian historian Kabuzan estimated 560,000 Polish nobility in Russia in 1795.

Please note that Russian western border in 1795 was the same as modern eastern border of Poland.

So we are talking about 560,000 Polish nobles all of whom lived to the east of present-day Poland.

Most of those people were de-nobilitated (lost their noble status) during the 1800s under Tsar's rule.

Russian Tsars deprived most of Polish nobles of their status, because after Russia annexed Polish lands in 1772-1795, Polish nobility in the Russian Empire was more numerous than Russian nobility.so they had to fix that by reducing the number of Polish nobles.

I see, so did they only deprive them of their titles or also of their wealth?

[Peterski]

There were around 2.3 million Roman Catholics in the Russian Empire in 1795 (according to previously mentioned Kabuzan). This included about 630.000 Lithuanians. All ethnic Latvians in the Russian Empire in 1795 numbered 820.000 and most of them were Protestants, but some were Catholic. Germans numbered 125.000 and most were also Protestant, but there were some Catholics too.

The rest of Roman Catholics (those who were not Lithuanian/Latvian/German) were Poles (and some Belarusians).

For comparison in year 1719 there were only 900 (less than one thousand) Roman Catholics in entire Russia - but Russia was much smaller in 1719 than in 1795. During that period they annexed many areas with largely Roman Catholic population.

So there was no such a thing as ethnic Russian Catholics - all Catholics in Russia were minorities, mostly Poles.

[Peterski]

I see, so did they only deprive them of their titles or also of their wealth?

Depends.

If they participated in uprisings or other anti-Russian activity then they were often deprived of wealth and deported to Siberia.

See for example this Russian movie about Polish anti-Russian uprising in 1863-1864:



^^^ Interestingly the custom - common among Polish women - of wearing wedding ring on your right hand instead of on your left hand (like women in the vast majority of other countries do, AFAIK), originated during that uprising.

Before the uprising, married women were wearing their wedding ring on left hand, and widows on right hand. During the uprising, in an act of solidarity with wifes of the fallen, all women nation-wide started wearing it on right hand.

And this custom has continued until today.

[Meerkat]

That's the hard part, I only know about his physical appearance from what my family members have seen of him, it appears he hasn't left any pictures in Romania. The only other thing I know apart from what I've already stated is that he had long hair, but it isn't helpful

Yeah I wouldn't be able to tell without a photo. Maybe take a DNA test?

[Peterski]

That's the hard part, I only know about his physical appearance from what my family members have seen of him, it appears he hasn't left any pictures in Romania. The only other thing I know apart from what I've already stated is that he had long hair, but it isn't helpful

Do you know what his surname was? In most cases Jews had distinctly Jewish surnames.

[Dandelion]

People here ask why the hell they haven't assimilated yet. Other Romanians wish to deport them for past loyalty issues. Poles in Romania are there to stay.