I2a1b-CTS10228 Rurikids

[cosmoo]

Why do the Russian Chronicles claim the line wasn't Slavic though? thats a big disparity between their chronicles of a Varangian dynasty and what this supposedly shows.

The original of Primary Chronicle didn't survive, but still, the Hypatian Codex clearly separates Varangians from Rus as people, and the earliest Arab sources, such as the one of Ibn-Khurradadhbih, also explicitly mention Rus to be "one of the Slavic peoples".
Moreover, in Primary Chronicle it is also mentioned how Oleg (who was Rurik's contemporary, so "Slavicization" argument is impossible) and his druzhina swore by Perun and Veles to confirm a peace treaty with Byzantium in 907, and we find the same done by Igor in 945, and again by Sviatoslav in 971.

The whole mantra that Rurikids were Scandinavians starts with the Normanist theories in 18th century, furthered by "Romanovs" (not the original line) and Gerhard Friedrich Muller, and was opposed by most sane-minded members of Russian intelligentsia, even by Rurikid descendants themselves.

You should have called this thread:

"How a Swedish woman cucked one I2a-Din man"

Why do you think is I2a-Din absolutely absent from Sweden and Germanic countries today?

Maybe all I2a-Din men got cucked.

It merely disappeared when it went away, massively outnumbered, in form of some East Germanic tribe.

And cheating of woman unbeknownst to husband does not make man a "cuck", that is such a dimwitted stance of modernity. Evola put it very well:

[Peterski]

And cheating of woman unbeknownst to husband does not make man a "cuck", that is such a dimwitted stance of modernity. Evola put it very well:

I know, in modern times the word "cuck" has lost its original meaning. I agree with that.

[Arborean]

The original of Primary Chronicle didn't survive, but still, the Hypatian Codex clearly separates Varangians from Rus as people, and the earliest Arab sources, such as the one of Ibn-Khurradadhbih, also explicitly mention Rus to be "one of the Slavic peoples".
Moreover, in Primary Chronicle it is also mentioned how Oleg (who was Rurik's contemporary, so "Slavicization" argument is impossible) and his druzhina swore by Perun and Veles to confirm a peace treaty with Byzantium in 907, and we find the same done by Igor in 945, and again by Sviatoslav in 971.

The whole mantra that Rurikids were Scandinavians starts with the Normanist theories in 18th century, furthered by "Romanovs" (not the original line) and Gerhard Friedrich Muller, and was opposed by most sane-minded members of Russian intelligentsia, even by Rurikid descendants themselves.



It merely disappeared when it went away, massively outnumbered, in form of some East Germanic tribe.

And cheating of woman unbeknownst to husband does not make man a "cuck", that is such a dimwitted stance of modernity. Evola put it very well:

Interesting. Did not know that. So they were always Slavic. I saw the movie about his Sons. Sadly the english translations were abhorrent. Production value was nice though. I am sure I would have enjoyed it more had it not seemed like a person with down syndrome translated the dialogue lmao.

[Pribislav]

Rurik was Varangian, and most likely I1.

[Peterski]

Original study in Russian:
https://space-time.ru/space-time/art...st3-21.2015.71
https://space-time.ru/space-time/art...1.2015.71/207/

TL;DR - Vsevolod (and hence, his son Vladimir Monomah) of N1c1 Y-DNA are product of non-paternal event which happened between Yaroslav's wife, Ingergerd of Sweden, and king St. Olaf of Norway, while original Rurikids, preserved through families of Izyaslavich branch, such as princes of Turov, belong to I2a-CTS10228.

But how exactly did they determine that N1c is from infidelity, and not I2a?

Was the husband's actual ancient DNA tested? If not, there's no knowing where the infidelity occurred, or, indeed, if there was infidelity. An example of this situation is Richard III of England. His Y-DNA is not the same as that of putative descendants of the Plantagenets. The Beauforts sport two R1b lineages, one recently changed, but the older one is U152. There is no way to determine where the illegitimacy occurred. One would need the Y-DNA of Geoffrey of Anjou or at least Edward III, given that there were questions about John of Gaunt's legitimacy as well.

[cosmoo]

But how exactly did they determine that N1c is from infidelity, and not I2a? Was the husband's actual dna tested, i.e. was his ancient dna tested? If not, there's no knowing where the infidelity occurred, or, indeed, if there was infidelity. An example of this situation is Richard III of England. His yDna is not the same as that of putative descendants of the Plantagenets. The Beauforts sport two R1b lineages, one recently changed, but the older one is U-152. There is no way to determine where the illegitimacy occurred. One would need the ydna of Geoffrey of Anjou or at least Edward III, given that there were questions about John of Gaunt's legitimacy as well.

Because it is known that Olaf of Norway was quite intimate with Ingergerd during his exile in Russia, and it is symptomatic that she gave birth to Vsevolod (father of Monomakh, and only men of Monomaschich descent are N1c1) not so long after he left, whereas there are no such stories surrounding the Izyaslavich branch at all.

As for Plantagents, they most likely are G2a indeed, as Beauforts only have living men tested, and as you said, there are some rumors surrounding John of Gaunt as well. To be honest, I do not know why didn't they test some older remains already, there are so many of them well-preserved.

[Peterski]

Within Sviatoslav's line, a (second?) non-paternity event must have happened, since descendants from Yuri prince of Torussa (the Obolonsky and Volkonsky families) show R1a, while from Yuri's brother Mstislav, the N1c Massalsky family descends.

Is I2a-Y13498 also found in lineages that do not descend from Izyaslav but also not from Yaroslav the Wise (are there such lineages)?

[Peterski]

1) Were other descendants of king Olaf of Norway or of this Norwegian dynasty also tested?

2) How do you explain N1c in descendants of Sviatoslav's line (e.g. the family Massalsky)?

Did Ingegerd cheat on Yaroslav with Olaf twice?

[cosmoo]

Within Sviatoslav's line, a (second?) non-paternity event must have happened, since descendants from Yuri prince of Torussa (the Obolonsky and Volkonsky families) show R1a, while from Yuri's brother Mstislav, the N1c Massalsky family descends.

Those R1a bearers are actually addressed in the study which I posted. Their family lineages were modified in 16th century to be placed better at the Tsar's court.

Is I2a-Y13498 also found in lineages that do not descend from Izyaslav but also not from Yaroslav the Wise (are there such lineages)?

As far as I'm aware, all the modern Rurikids tested are from two sons (well, the latter most likely isn't) of Yaroslav the Wise: Iziaslav and Vsevolod (and from his son Vladimir Monomakh).

[cosmoo]

1) Were other descendants of king Olaf of Norway or of this Norwegian dynasty also tested?

He never founded a dynasty, so no, albeit this branch of N1c1 is typically Scandinavian.

2) How do you explain N1c in descendants of Sviatoslav's line (e.g. the family Massalsky)?

As you said, they descend from Yuri's brother Mstislav, who was son of Vladimir Monomakh, who himself was Vsevolod's son, so there is nothing to be explained there.

Did Ingegerd cheat on Yaroslav with Olaf twice?

Not likely, as Olaf stayed in Russia for about a year.