J2b2-L283 and Ilyrian colonisation of the Balkans

**Aren** · 02-13-2019, 11:13 PM

J2-L283 probably came from Anatolia to SE Europe during the Bronze Age, and then assimilated into the various proto-Illyrian and proto-Thracian tribes.

**Trojet** · 02-13-2019, 11:23 PM

Originally Posted by Aren

J2-L283 probably came from Anatolia to SE Europe during the Bronze Age, and then assimilated into the various proto-Illyrian and proto-Thracian tribes.

No evidence whatsoever for neither of the bolded. Certainly not being backed up by ancient DNA.

**~~Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin~~** · 02-13-2019, 11:28 PM

Originally Posted by Trojet

I thought we came from Sardinia

I'm disappointed now..

Well maybe not your clade but probably mine did pass nearby there. But I think it was actually corsican possibly that migrated into liguria / southern france region. Before than when J -L283 came about it was in the caucus area though. Georgia and armenia.

**Aren** · 02-13-2019, 11:44 PM

Originally Posted by Trojet

No evidence whatsoever for neither of the bolded. Certainly not being backed up by ancient DNA.

All other J2 clades today in Europe with the exception of some J2a ones seem to have entered Europe during the BA from Anatolia or the Levant, so that's what I'm basing it on. Not to mention that J2b2 peaks in areas of Europe with the highest amount of Anatolia_BA admixture.

And why would Thracians not also carry J2b2-L283?

**Trojet** · 02-13-2019, 11:47 PM

Originally Posted by Aren

All other J2 clades today in Europe with the exception of some J2a ones seem to have entered Europe during the BA from Anatolia or the Levant, so that's what I'm basing it on. Not to mention that J2b2 peaks in areas of Europe with the highest amount of Anatolia_BA admixture.

And why would Thracians not also carry J2b2-L283?

While the Anatolian route may be correct, the Northern Black Sea route is much more plausible based on ancient DNA. So whenever you show me a J-L283 that was found in Anatolia and one in a Proto-Thracian, I will take your arguments more seriously.

**~~Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić~~** · 02-13-2019, 11:52 PM

How does Balkan type of R1b fit into equation with J2b2 and proto-Illyrians ?

**Aren** · 02-13-2019, 11:53 PM

Originally Posted by Trojet

Whenever you show me a J-L283 that was found in Anatolia and one in a Proto-Thracian, I will maybe take your posts more seriously..

Well there's J2b2 in BA Armenia and not really that many sampled genomes from the eastern Balkans than could be proto-Thracian atm. I wouldn't even say that the Croatian L283 sample is necessarily proto-Illyrian either. As I suspect them to have been originally R1b-Z103.

Either way there's clear Anatolia_BA admixture in the L283 sample BA sample from Croatia

"distance%=2.8264"

Balkans_BA:I4331

Baden_LCA,39.4
Yamnaya_Bulgaria,35.6
Anatolia_BA,14.6
Ukraine_Eneolithic,10.4

**~~Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić~~** · 02-13-2019, 11:56 PM

Originally Posted by Aren

Well there's J2b2 in BA Armenia and not really that many sampled genomes from the eastern Balkans than could be proto-Thracian atm. I wouldn't even say that the Croatian L283 sample is necessarily proto-Illyrian either. As I suspect them to have been originally R1b-Z103.

Either way there's clear Anatolia_BA admixture in the L283 sample BA sample from Croatia

"distance%=2.8264"

Balkans_BA:I4331

Baden_LCA,39.4
Yamnaya_Bulgaria,35.6
Anatolia_BA,14.6
Ukraine_Eneolithic,10.4

Mate, these ancient samples aren't even available on gedmatch ? How much would modern Croats score of this Dalmatian sample ? Speaking of sample itself, which modern populations it's most similar to ?
Thanks man. I hope you can answer to these questions.

**~~Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin~~** · 02-13-2019, 11:57 PM

Originally Posted by Trojet

While the Anatolian route may be correct, the Northern Black Sea route is much more plausible based on ancient DNA. So whenever you show me a J-L283 that was found in Anatolia and one in a Proto-Thracian, I will maybe take your posts more seriously.

J-L283 x585 lineages probably took the anatolian route into the medditerenean (anatolian pontic greek turk man is x585, his last name is greek suggesting he is pontic greek). While 615 lineages probably took the black sea route or both.

**Trojet** · 02-14-2019, 12:05 AM

Originally Posted by Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin

J-L283 x585 lineages probably took the anatolian route into the medditerenean (anatolian pontic greek turk man is x585, his last name is greek suggesting he is pontic greek). While 615 lineages probably took the black sea route or both.

Why are you making up these things when I know the situation better than you. The sample you're speaking of is from Istanbul, and not a Pontic Greek! He doesn't know if they came from elsewhere but suspects they may be originally from Greece.