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Thread: Catalonia vs Spain, tonight again?

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    My Countship is not of this world Comte Arnau's Avatar
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    Default Catalonia vs Spain, tonight again?

    It was Franco’s cup, now it’s the King’s cup – what will winning the Copa del Rey mean to Barcelona?

    Civil War, dictatorships and monarchies all feature in the history of this very Spanish competition, making it more than just a Clasico for the Catalans tonight.


    It is the most inherently Spanish of all football tournaments. The Copa del Rey has its roots firmly planted in Castile and none of its many guises would appear to remotely connect with the politics or philosophy of Barcelona. And yet the Catalans have won it 25 times – more than any other club.

    So apart from silverware, what’s in it for them?



    The Copa began life as the Madrid City Council Cup, which is hardly likely to represent an appealing competition in Catalunya, even if Real were founded by a Catalan. Later, the competition became Franco’s cup – the Copa del Generalisimo.

    Under Franco’s rule, the competition adopted his name and he presented the trophy. And much to his chagrin as a staunch Spanish nationalist and Real Madrid aficionado, the dictator was forced to hand over the famous pot to Barcelona on no less than nine occasions.

    “It all goes back to the dictatorship, when Franco was around. Catalunya was living under repression,” said former Barca full-back and two-time Copa del Rey winner Albert Ferrer of the tournament, and of his side’s rivalry with Wednesday’s opponents, Real Madrid.

    Franco watched on helplessly in 1968 as Barca beat his Madrid in the teams’ second final meeting. The first had come 32 years earlier, just 28 days before the cruel Civil War which left many scars and saw Franco later come into power. Madrid won that game 2-1; it was a bad year for Catalunya.

    The Catalans’ next meeting with Madrid in the final, in 1990, saw Barca emerge victorious, and that success is said to have saved coach Johan Cruyff’s job.

    As a player at Camp Nou, the Dutchman – who told the press he had shunned a move to Real Madrid to avoid any relationship with Franco – also picked up a cup winner’s medal.

    “I won it in the King’s reign,” he said. “I was the captain of Barcelona and he awarded it to me. It was my last game for the club.”



    Cruyff should have been able to compete in the final four years earlier, when Barca and Madrid met for the third time, but foreigners were excluded from the competition under Franco, a rule scrapped along with the Copa del Generalisimo name following the dictator’s death in 1975. Without Cruyff, Barca lost 4-0: “I was only able to win one cup because as foreigners, we weren’t allowed to play in the Copa del Generalísimo. I guess they didn’t want us to shine,” said the Dutchman.

    Repression had even reached football now, but times in Spain were about to change. King Juan Carlos shrewdly set about reshaping the country and a period of change began: The Transition.

    The King proved a key player in the field of politics, but remained a fan on the field of football – albeit a privileged one.

    Just after the Transition and the installation of democracy in Spain, Madrid and Barca met again in the final in 1983, with the Catalans triumphant on this occasion. But rivalries and tensions persisted; Spain was still divided and resentment remained.

    “During Franco’s time people weren’t allowed to name their children with Catalan names; they couldn’t speak their language. That’s repression,” former Barca coach Frank Rijkaard said.

    “Luckily enough it’s a long time ago, but for many people it’s fresh. You talk about repression and you will always have a reaction because people will always remember what happened there.”

    Tonight, the Spanish national anthem will be played before kick-off and with the hymn expected to be roundly jeered by the Catalan fans, the Spanish Football Federation (RFEF) are reportedly ready to blare out the music as loud as possible in order to avoid conflict.

    But this is Madrid against Barca in the Copa del Rey, a symbol of everything the Catalan people have grown to dislike about Spain.

    “It’s Catalunya against Spain really,” former Madrid midfielder Steve McManaman added.



    “They want their own independence, they’re talking about their own autonomy, they’re talking about their own government, their own language. It’s like you are playing in a different country.”

    Despite the historical differences between the two teams, ex-Real captain and central defender Fernando Hierro – a Copa del Rey winner with Madrid in 1993 – believes football should be the only consideration when the two rivals meet.

    “At the end of the day this is a game of football between two eternal rivals, and this should always come before the politics,” he said.

    That, however, would appear to be wishful thinking.

    “I remember pulling up to the Bernabeu on the team bus and there were loads of fans in white shirts chanting [to the Catalans] 'Spain, Spain, Spain – you’re not Spain',” said former Barca coach Terry Venables.

    Indeed, such fixtures are usually marked with a banner from Barca supporters with the motif ‘Catalunya is not Spain’. Striker Thierry Henry, a Copa del Rey winner with Guardiola’s side in 2009, agrees.

    “Catalonia is not Spain,” Henry said. “It’s something else and you have to feel it.”




    Both sets of fans will make their feelings clear tonight and less than a year after Catalans, Basques, Madrilenos et al united to celebrate Spain’s World Cup victory last summer, old wounds will be opened again.

    For Madrid, the hunger to win is extreme after two trophyless seasons spent living in the shadows of their eternal enemies, while for Barca, the passion for beating Real never diminishes.

    Oleguer, former Barca defender and self-proclaimed Catalan nationalist, is a more extreme case. He wrote in his book: “When Barcelona win the league, we become the Army of joy finally able to face up to [Franco's troops].”

    Meanwhile, publication Marca claims that current Barca defender Gerard Pique taunted his rivals following a tunnel bust-up with Madrid players after the Clasico on Saturday night, which ended in a 1-1 draw.

    “You little Spaniards, we have won your Spanish league,” he is alleged to have said. “Now we are going to win your King’s cup.”

    Although unlikely to be true and vehemently denied by Pique himself, those words will strike a chord with many in Catalunya. Barca’s famous motto is ‘more than a club’, while their relationship with Madrid could be described as more than just a rivalry. And for the Catalans, the Copa del Rey represents more than just a cup.



    REAL MADRID VS BARCELONA:

    Four Clasicos in 18 days
    Apr 16: La Liga
    Real Madrid 1-1 Barcelona

    Apr 20: Copa Del Rey final
    8.30pm BST - Mestalla, Valencia

    Apr 27: Champions League semi, 1st leg
    7.45 BST - Bernabeu

    May 3: Champions League semi 2nd leg
    7.45 BST - Nou Camp



    Source: goal.com

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    The whole Catalonia (tending fastly to supporting Barça in exclusive) will start today to receive, in a symbolic manner (as you were the first symbolism from football) , the first of a serie of baths of humility. Body cares that you really need in despite you dont even notice. Being more precise I predict the awesome sportman called Pepe would play a relevant role on it by stopping on his own force the petite homunculi with you use to populate your midfield.

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    My Countship is not of this world Comte Arnau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antonio View Post
    The whole Catalonia (tending fastly to supporting Barça in exclusive) will start today to receive, in a symbolic manner (as you were the first symbolism from football) , the first of a serie of baths of humility. Body cares that you really need in despite you dont even notice. Being more precise I predict the awesome sportman called Pepe would play a relevant role on it by stopping on his own force the petite homunculi with you use to populate your midfield.
    Hahaha. So you agree with octopus Iker's prediction?

    My prediction is 3-1 for Barça. The Bourbons robbed our Liberties but we'll rob their Cup once again.

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    Since both teams are filled with foreigners, this cup no longer means anythng.

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    My Countship is not of this world Comte Arnau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorri Matxino View Post
    Since both teams are filled with foreigners, this cup no longer means anythng.
    Lol. At least most of the important ones in Barça are from la Masia. Symbolism in this case trascends the players.

    But I admit I've always liked Athletic Bilbao precisely for their non-foreigner policy. Admirable when you consider they're the only team -apart from Barça and Madrid- which has always played in the First division.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Count Arnau View Post
    Lol. At least most of the important ones in Barça are from la Masia. Symbolism in this case trascends the players.

    But I admit I've always liked Athletic Bilbao precisely for their non-foreigner policy. Admirable when you consider they're the only team -apart from Barça and Madrid- which has always played in the First division.
    Unfortunately, some Africans have crept their way onto the youth teams. Although, you are right. The most important players (In Barcelona) are Catalonian. Hopefully, it will remain that way.

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    My Countship is not of this world Comte Arnau's Avatar
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    I know and hope so too. But even them will be heavily indoctrinated, you know.

    Just like everyone who's been at Barça. Even Figo.

    Or Mourinho: 'Today, tomorrow and forever, Barça in my heart!'
    [YOUTUBE]I88VYnpJUR0[/YOUTUBE]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Count Arnau View Post
    Lol. At least most of the important ones in Barça are from la Masia. Symbolism in this case trascends the players.
    La Masia is just a nice facade. Moreover, some of the suposedly born-there myths came already as relevant players (just check out Messi previous videos). Maybe marketing dep should reinforce the idea of phony autenticity by resorting to a more up with the times and accurate name: the Messia. Ha,ha,ha!


    But I admit I've always liked Athletic Bilbao precisely for their non-foreigner policy. Admirable when you consider they're the only team -apart from Barça and Madrid- which has always played in the First division.
    I've certain simpathies for Real Madrid (reinforced specially along last decade) but they dont prevent myself from sharing your opinion about Athletic...and my mum told me she was once a fan too, on the ancient time when ETA was just a wild dream, and Athletic a direct rival of Madrid and Barça.

    Anycase, be prepared for the worst, Count. Cause it could be a long and though night for your interests.

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    My Countship is not of this world Comte Arnau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antonio View Post
    La Masia is just a nice facade. Moreover, some of the suposedly born-there myths came already as relevant players (just check out Messi previous videos). Maybe marketing dep should reinforce the idea of phony autenticity by resorting to a more up with the times and accurate name: the Messia. Ha,ha,ha!
    Bah, mere envy because the Madrid junior academy simply sucks.

    Quote Originally Posted by antonio View Post
    I've certain simpathies for Real Madrid (reinforced specially along last decade) but they dont prevent myself from sharing your opinion about Athletic...and my mum told me she was once a fan too, on the ancient time when ETA was just a wild dream, and Athletic a direct rival of Madrid and Barça.
    Nothing wrong with that. I have sympathies for some teams more than for others, even if I only have got one in my heart.

    I can even understand that one has friends supporters from the other team. But not on the very same day! Rivalry should be stronger than that, what do pussy pics like this one mean??!!! Fuck fake coleguismo!


    Quote Originally Posted by antonio View Post
    Anycase, be prepared for the worst, Count. Cause it could be a long and though night for your interests.
    Let's see it. Do you want a high five?

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    My Countship is not of this world Comte Arnau's Avatar
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    Btw, didn't know they're going to put the Spanish anthem at the highest level of decibels possible, so that whistles can't be heard. The same level of decibels of a plane taking off!!! So scared you are of the whistle power?

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