Albanian/Serbo-Montenegrin tribes

[DukaGenius]

Skerdlaid,

As we know, for whatever reason, Gash, whether it be a tribal name or surname is popular. So, weeding out these lines is not easy.

* also, to back track, Muzaka and Kocaqi -- horeshit? What's wrong with you? You act like there are all these wonderful pieces of evidence and these two dampen the whole thing. Muzaka's 'Will and Testament' gives a good idea and insight into how these people looked at themselves.
Not only that, it does give information about the principalities and tribes. The guy fought the Ottoman's with Skanderbeg, he deserves more respect than that. Also, what we have is a translation, if we had the original document it may yield a more coherent history.

Correct about Thaci; they were kicked out to Kosovo. Hashim Thaci's family.

* The Malaj book has many flaws. The best parts are the the generational schematics; which is why I posted those. A better book is "Gashi i Gurit" by Halil zeq hajdaraj.

*There are many legends as we know, but also concrete evidence. A rarity in these parts. Bardhi-Aga's son Ali has an inscription on his tombstone that dates his death(1600s). Also mentions how the land he has was inherited to him from his father "zaimllekun" powerful ruler/leader depending on the translation.

As far as the Begolli connection i have a lot of info I'm putting together. I would like some more before I put it out. I've been in touch with some sources in Turkey, but its going nowhere because of their laziness. I'm reaching out to others to help me get some info from their archives.

[DukaGenius]

Skerdlaid,

As we know, for whatever reason, Gash, whether it be a tribal name or surname is popular. So, weeding out these lines is not easy.

* also, to back track, Muzaka and Kocaqi -- horeshit? What's wrong with you? You act like there are all these wonderful pieces of evidence and these two dampen the whole thing. Muzaka's 'Will and Testament' gives a good idea and insight into how these people looked at themselves.
Not only that, it does give information about the principalities and tribes. The guy fought the Ottoman's with Skanderbeg, he deserves more respect than that. Also, what we have is a translation, if we had the original document it may yield a more coherent history.

Correct about Thaci; they were kicked out to Kosovo those Thachi that can claim Hashim Thaci. (lucky them--yawn)

* The Malaj book has many flaws. The best parts are the the generational schematics; which is why I posted those. A better book is "Gashi i Gurit" by Halil zeq hajdaraj.

*There are many legends as we know, but also concrete evidence. A rarity in these parts. Bardhi-Aga's son Ali has an inscription on his tombstone that dates his death(1600s). Also mentions how the land he has was inherited to him from his father "zaimllekun" powerful ruler/leader depending on the translation.

As far as the Begolli connection i have a lot of info I'm putting together. I would like some more before I put it out. I've been in touch with some sources in Turkey, but its going nowhere because of their laziness. I'm reaching out to others to help me get some info from their archives.

I was in touch with a respected member of the Begolli family. He was of little to no help. As in his own words "I'm not the best person to ask". He did, however, tell me that within their family they have their own genealogical book that traces their history. He told me is there is a copy available he would send it to me. I'm still waiting....a year later.

[Skerdilaid]

Muzaka’s testimonials are extremely valuable. My comment was more directed towards Elena’s book regarding Troy and ‘Pelasgian/Illyrian’ wars.

Malaj is one the most serious Albanian ethnographers I have read. When he speaks of Bardhi and their origins he references Zojsi that recorded that tradition. Bardhi expanded out of Gosturan, and eventually became quite powerful. Absorbed Shipshani and Luzha in the process. And true that Bardhi became synonymous with Gashi, however, that doesn’t make the original Gashi. What does this fella have to say that we haven’t read or heard as of yet? His book doesn’t seem to be available online so I won’t go out of my way to purchase it, that may end up being almost useless anyway considering how much we know about them genetically.

Hashim’s family actually claim to have come directly from Iballe.


Can you get this Begolli fella to test? Their test would seal the deal.

[Ownstyler]

As far as the Begolli connection i have a lot of info I'm putting together. I would like some more before I put it out. I've been in touch with some sources in Turkey, but its going nowhere because of their laziness. I'm reaching out to others to help me get some info from their archives.

If you can find me the 1582 Ottoman register of Shkoder, with all the names of the heads of households (like the 1485 one), I'll cover a Y-DNA test for you .

[Black Wolf]

I am curious about the status of the Albanian tribe or region of Reçi of Malësia e Madhe in the Shkodër area. Some sources seem to say that Reçi is a tribe of polyphyletic origin while another source says that Reçi is not truly a tribe and is more of a region. Robert Elsie in his book entitled ''The Tribes of Albania'' describes Reçi as a tribe but notes that they seem to be of polyphyletic origin ans thus not a ''fis'' in the sense of a tribe claiming ancestor from a common male line ancestor. He does however describe Reçi as a tribal region and mentions that they belong to a bajrak that also includes the Lohja tribe. Franz Baron Nopcsa mentions that the Reçi are a small tribe of polyphyletic origin as well yet a commentator on his work a researcher named Ndoc Kamsi says that Reçi is not actually a tribe but describes Reçi as a ''mountain'' or region. I will link some sources about this topic below. I can't read or speak Albanian so I am using Google Translate for the Nopcsa article so maybe something gets lost in the translation. I am not sure. So is Reçi a true tribe or more so of a region of Malësia e Madhe?

https://books.google.ca/books?id=i2I...20Reci&f=false

https://gazetamapo.al/topografia-dhe...-e-veriut-iii/

[Ownstyler]

So is Reçi a true tribe or more so of a region of Malësia e Madhe?

The fis (shared ancestry clan) and bajrak (political unit) borders were not always identical. In terms of ancestry, local traditions says Reç started with 4 brothers, 2 Catholics and 2 Muslims, and all the fis members are their descendats. There are however a number of anas families who might not be closely related to the rest, because they are thought to have lived there from before the expansion of the Reçi brothers.

This information comes from an old man from Reç, who inherited it from his forefathers. The supposed kinship of the Muslim brotherhoods with the Catholic ones has not been confirmed through DNA yet.

[Black Wolf]

The fis (shared ancestry clan) and bajrak (political unit) borders were not always identical. In terms of ancestry, local traditions says Reç started with 4 brothers, 2 Catholics and 2 Muslims, and all the fis members are their descendats. There are however a number of anas families who might not be closely related to the rest, because they are thought to have lived there from before the expansion of the Reçi brothers.

This information comes from an old man from Reç, who inherited it from his forefathers. The supposed kinship of the Muslim brotherhoods with the Catholic ones has not been confirmed through DNA yet.

That is interesting and good information thank you. So according to tradition were the two Muslim Reçi brothers actually supposed to be brothers with the two Catholic Reçi brothers? Or were the two Muslim Reçi brothers and the two Catholic Reçi brothers from different families/origins?

[HungryLion]

Why Krasnići claims that they are from herzegovina?
If that true than they lived among Serbs very long time of even being one of them? They are E-V13 right?

[Ownstyler]

That is interesting and good information thank you. So according to tradition were the two Muslim Reçi brothers actually supposed to be brothers with the two Catholic Reçi brothers? Or were the two Muslim Reçi brothers and the two Catholic Reçi brothers from different families/origins?

They were supposedly four brothers, all brothers to each-other. As I mentioned, this has not been DNA-confirmed yet.

Why Krasnići claims that they are from herzegovina?
If that true than they lived among Serbs very long time of even being one of them? They are E-V13 right?

Krasniqi is J2b-L283>PH1751, a paleo-Balkan, non-Serbian clade if there ever was one. The Hercegovina tradition has found no DNA support until now.

[DukaGenius]

lol. Will do. Is that a holy grail of some sort? Why is it so difficult to come by?