Albanian/Serbo-Montenegrin tribes

[DukaGenius]

Begolli of Peje only that I know of, the rest of the family migrated out after their collapse to my knowledge. The actor Faruk Begolli was from this family. Also important to remember there were two unrelated Dukagjini families, both from the north. The BY611 might be a Begoll since is he from Peje and only listed his old last name, but I am not certain, guy is nonresponsive (tested long time ago).

The Begolli have a claim. Although, I've read that when they were multiplying their numbers the clan leaders married multiple women, including Turkish. So, with all due respect their blood may be mixed. Gashi I Gurit and Begolli have a link - which ties them both to the house of Dukagjini. Other than those two the House of Gjonmarkaj (kapidans of mirdite) claim as well. It's possible. I doubt any other legitimate, blood relation to Dukagjinis exist as a tribe. As many of them fled to Italy.

The Crusader theory isn't without merit. At the time of the first crusade Normans' where in Albania awaiting orders to go to Constantinople. They pope gave his orders of "deus volt" and go to Jerusalem I think the crusader was Albanian. Either recruited while the Nromans' where there or volunteered to fight.

Let's not forget muzaka's words about the Dukagjini "...why they were the ruling dynasty". They had relations with venice and the pope for many years. Also, it was Skanderbeg that made peace with Leke Dukagjini. There's a reason why he didn't just force him to help with his cause.

Muzaka claims the 'original' Dukagjini bought land in Zadrima after returning from the Crusade. A lot of that seems consistent with history. I'm just trying to find a link to the Crusader/Albanian to tie it all together.

As far as Muzaka mentioning the Trojan War. I don't think he was off. A new book describes it as a Pelasgian/Illyrian Civil War. So, he might not have been wrong as he probably saw it as a Civil War without question or Greek claim.

https://www.amazon.com/War-Troy-Pela...gateway&sr=8-1

Back to Muzaka, does anyone know where the original text exists? The translation is confusing esp. during the Dukagjini history.

This meeting (http://www.iliria.si/alb/Iliria_2017-dukagjini.pdf?i=1) was held in Slovenia as a Dukagjini manuscript was found. What's most important is that it tries to tie the Dukagjini with Komnenos family. It doesn't make sense. esp. when you see that the geneaology line does NOT connect Leke Dukagjini with his father Pal. Which tells me someone pieced it together. Fascinating as it is, it does make you wonder why the Dukagjini had so much written about them. They must've been a special fis.

[Ayetooey]

They are related those 2 tribes mixed. I am a mix myself from that myself

Your paternal line comes from an Albo tribe?

[RenaRyuguu]

Your paternal line comes from an Albo tribe?

No I'm Catholic Greek. Prob related to some Catholic Albanians but Greek not Albanian. I don't speak siptari

[RenaRyuguu]

Your paternal line comes from an Albo tribe?

However yes it seems I am 25% Illyrian

[DukaGenius]

Few corrections:
1. Part of Gruda are R1b-BY611>Z2705 (Lulgjuraj and possibly orther brotherhoods).
2. I2a Shala are not from Dukagjin but from Kosove.
3. Gashi has three big branches that distinguish themselves from each other. The Gashi i Gurit or in other words the original Gashi are PH1751. Bardhi are PH2180 and so are Shipshaj.
4. Nikaj are PH1751 and related to Keasniqi as tradition has it (Merturi are FGC33625)

Gashi I Gurit is Bardhi - stemming from Bardhi Aga in the 1600s. The other Gashi (Luzha -dervish Luzha) and Shipshan are not related, but consider themselves brothers -- they cannot marry. Luzha and Shipshan came later and consolidated due to the strength in numbers. So there are three DNA tests that could be done in that area.

*Thachi were originally from Tropoja. They were stuck between the Gash and Bytyci and were pushed out by both tribes carving up their land. A poem in the north has a line '....a snake like a thachi'.

[Skerdilaid]

The Begolli have a claim. Although, I've read that when they were multiplying their numbers the clan leaders married multiple women, including Turkish. So, with all due respect their blood may be mixed. Gashi I Gurit and Begolli have a link - which ties them both to the house of Dukagjini. Other than those two the House of Gjonmarkaj (kapidans of mirdite) claim as well. It's possible. I doubt any other legitimate, blood relation to Dukagjinis exist as a tribe. As many of them fled to Italy.

The Crusader theory isn't without merit. At the time of the first crusade Normans' where in Albania awaiting orders to go to Constantinople. They pope gave his orders of "deus volt" and go to Jerusalem I think the crusader was Albanian. Either recruited while the Nromans' where there or volunteered to fight.

Let's not forget muzaka's words about the Dukagjini "...why they were the ruling dynasty". They had relations with venice and the pope for many years. Also, it was Skanderbeg that made peace with Leke Dukagjini. There's a reason why he didn't just force him to help with his cause.

Muzaka claims the 'original' Dukagjini bought land in Zadrima after returning from the Crusade. A lot of that seems consistent with history. I'm just trying to find a link to the Crusader/Albanian to tie it all together.

As far as Muzaka mentioning the Trojan War. I don't think he was off. A new book describes it as a Pelasgian/Illyrian Civil War. So, he might not have been wrong as he probably saw it as a Civil War without question or Greek claim.

https://www.amazon.com/War-Troy-Pela...gateway&sr=8-1

Back to Muzaka, does anyone know where the original text exists? The translation is confusing esp. during the Dukagjini history.

This meeting (http://www.iliria.si/alb/Iliria_2017-dukagjini.pdf?i=1) was held in Slovenia as a Dukagjini manuscript was found. What's most important is that it tries to tie the Dukagjini with Komnenos family. It doesn't make sense. esp. when you see that the geneaology line does NOT connect Leke Dukagjini with his father Pal. Which tells me someone pieced it together. Fascinating as it is, it does make you wonder why the Dukagjini had so much written about them. They must've been a special fis.

Begolli’s ancestor carried Dukagjini as a family name, recorded as such by Ottomans. They converted and became Ottoman pashas. Later they changed their last name to Begolli. If they have any relations to Gashi i Gurit (Luzha), I am not sure, but I would bet it’s only a speculation.


Muzaka to Troy, and Elena Kocaqi, really dude? I don’t read that horseshit.

[Skerdilaid]

Gashi I Gurit is Bardhi - stemming from Bardhi Aga in the 1600s. The other Gashi (Luzha -dervish Luzha) and Shipshan are not related, but consider themselves brothers -- they cannot marry. Luzha and Shipshan came later and consolidated due to the strength in numbers. So there are three DNA tests that could be done in that area.

*Thachi were originally from Tropoja. They were stuck between the Gash and Bytyci and were pushed out by both tribes carving up their land. A poem in the north has a line '....a snake like a thachi'.

No, Bardhi are Bardhi and they much later joined Gashi and started identifying as such. Gashi i Gurit or the old Gashi are today’s Luzha and their relatives that were displaced by Krasniqi/Nikaj which can mostly be found in Kosove, who are PH1751. Luzha came to Luzhe during that displacement and Begolli of Peja settled them there. Shipshani just like Bardhi joined Gashi only in 1800s, and both groups believe to be with origin from Kuqi region.

Interesting, could be the case for some Thaçi. However traditionally they believe to be with origin from Anamal region.

[DukaGenius]

Gashi I Gurit aka Gash Bardhi, come from Bardhi Aga and can go back 16-17 generations. He settled his three sons in Tropoja and are the original Gash and first in Tropoja. He was an Albanian-Ottoman General that had land in Kosovo and Albania. The Grand Vizier during Bardhi-Aga's time was of Begolli blood (not yet called Begolli) they both are from the house of Dukagjini and Legitimate heirs. The relation between the two were probably cousin or uncle-nephew. Its much more detailed.

If you have more information on Ottoman records stating that Begolli are listed as Dukagjin. Please share. I'm putting together a big research project.

Gashi-Luzha can go back 7-8

Gash- Shipshan are old as well and stem from Kamber and his many descendants through his grandkids. Shipshan, although identified with "Gash" are more or less a tribe-apart with their own identity. Same with Luzha.

The three tribes banded together for their strength in numbers.

https://imgur.com/a/L3AIt1K

I don't know how to post pictures but some schematics of the bloodlines and Gashi-Begolli connection citations.

[Skerdilaid]

Gashi I Gurit aka Gash Bardhi, come from Bardhi Aga and can go back 16-17 generations. He settled his three sons in Tropoja and are the original Gash and first in Tropoja. He was an Albanian-Ottoman General that had land in Kosovo and Albania. The Grand Vizier during Bardhi-Aga's time was of Begolli blood (not yet called Begolli) they both are from the house of Dukagjini and Legitimate heirs. The relation between the two were probably cousin or uncle-nephew. Its much more detailed.

If you have more information on Ottoman records stating that Begolli are listed as Dukagjin. Please share. I'm putting together a big research project.

Gashi-Luzha can go back 7-8

Gash- Shipshan are old as well and stem from Kamber and his many descendants through his grandkids. Shipshan, although identified with "Gash" are more or less a tribe-apart with their own identity. Same with Luzha.

The three tribes banded together for their strength in numbers.

https://imgur.com/a/L3AIt1K

I don't know how to post pictures but some schematics of the bloodlines and Gashi-Begolli connection citations.

Buddy, Bardhi are not Gash i Gurit and they didn’t identify as Gash until very late. Read Ibrahim K. Malaj here: http://www.foleja.net/index.php?topic=13.0

Gashi i Gurit or the original Gashi are Luzha, Batusha and the rest of Gashi in Kosove who are PH1751. Their original settlement used to be Geghyseni, before Krasniqja displaced them. Their origins however lie in today’s Toplane and Dushmani territories, they were the old population there (Anas as we call them in Albanian). Now even confirmed genetically, Lumbardhi of Deçan who came directly from Dushmani region, and were known as Anas there, that identity as Gashi i Gurit in Lumbardh, have tested as PH1751 and are closely related to Luzha, Botusha and the rest of Gashi i Gurit.

Bardhi as I said came from Kuqi/Trieshi region according to their traditions, along with Shipshani. Both Bardhi and Shipshani have tested and are PH2180, so not related to the old Gashi.

Don’t recall exactly where I have read it.

[Ownstyler]

Gashi I Gurit aka Gash Bardhi, come from Bardhi Aga and can go back 16-17 generations. He settled his three sons in Tropoja and are the original Gash and first in Tropoja. He was an Albanian-Ottoman General that had land in Kosovo and Albania. The Grand Vizier during Bardhi-Aga's time was of Begolli blood (not yet called Begolli) they both are from the house of Dukagjini and Legitimate heirs. The relation between the two were probably cousin or uncle-nephew. Its much more detailed.

Gashi-Luzha can go back 7-8

Gash- Shipshan are old as well and stem from Kamber and his many descendants through his grandkids. Shipshan, although identified with "Gash" are more or less a tribe-apart with their own identity. Same with Luzha.

The greater number of generations is not necessarily proof of longer presence in the same area. The book you brought presents facts that show Gashi i Gurit was in Curraj around 400 years ago, despite the generations the remember.

Shipshan might end up not being as homogenous as the other clans of Tropoje.

What you said about Thac above might be correct, but it is probably not the Thac of Puke that lived there, but the Thac of Kosove and Has.

Can you bring some evidence of the relation to Begolli and the Albanian-Ottoman general?