Ethnic map of Europe - 2011

[Damião de Góis]

I was talking about real Valencians, not Castilianized ones.

As for what you say about struggling in the language... I don't have any problems with English or French when in London or Paris, but that doesn't make more English or French.

So in what way is a portuguese closer to castillians than a valencian? Genetically, culturally?

[evon]

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This is a total failure on several points, Saami ethnic groups are not a majority population in most of the Green areas and they are not one ethnic group, they are several with different languages corresponding to each ethnic group. Russian ethnic groups such as Komi and countless others are totally neglected on this map, there are also lots of other groups around Europe that are not listed...

[Comte Arnau]

So in what way is a portuguese closer to castillians than a valencian? Genetically, culturally?

The ethnogenesis is clear. Modern ethnicities in Iberia -at least the Romance ones- stem from the beginning of the Reconquest. Ethnically and politically, Portuguese, Asturians and Castilians stem from an old single "Leonese" ethnopolitical unity in the North-West, while in the North-East it's all about Frankish little counties. Compare both corners.

800 AD


900 AD


1000 AD


1100 AD



Surnames are traditionally very close in Portugal and Castile, with similar practices (all those patronymical endings in -es and in -ez, for instance). While in the North-East they've only become common with the massive migrations of the last centuries.

Galician-Portuguese has traditionally been much closer to Castilian than Catalan has, Catalan being even a possible import to the Peninsula. Obviously old sovereignty has allowed the language of Portugal to follow its own way in the phonological aspect, becoming very divergent from the modern Castilian standard. We could say that both close languages have driven gradually apart, while Catalan has followed the other path, it has become more and more Iberian and Castilianoid. Yet, the core vocabulary still reveals even nowadays how close Portuguese and Spanish are, while Catalan is still closer to Occitan. (Listen to a North Catalan, they speak the language with a French accent, and you'll know what I mean)

The problem with genetics is that analyses are not made following these patterns. More than half the population in the East has mixed with other Spaniards, so it's difficult to be sure. We should see what results would look like if individuals were really traditional from their homeland.

I'm not meaning at all with this that the Portuguese are not an obviously distinct ethnicity. Of course you are, even from the very origin. And different people will always have different opinions because we consider things after different factors. I see things in a diachronical way (throughout time).

Whether you are that different from Galicians or not, you know well that's another story.

[Damião de Góis]

Thanks for the long answer, i was curious about your point of view. Now, i'm not disagreeing with history and how the kingdoms emerged but mind was more focused on modern times when i replyed for the first time. And on modern times is highly debatable if a portuguese is closer to a castillian than a valencian in any way you want to compare.
About the language, there is a language barrier on oral mode, while it may not be there on written mode. I don't agree with what you say about surnames, since the only similiar ones are the patronymical surnames a few pan-iberian ones. A lot of Galician-portuguese or just portuguese surnames have no match in Castille, like my own surnames for example.

So, in short, politics and the way history went have made a huge difference to the point that now i would be a complete tourist and foreigner in Madrid (or in Galicia for that matter), while a valencian would not.