Independent Kurdistan: would you support it?

[Zoro]

Only haters and butthurt Heimscheißer would say no.

I’m all for every ethnic group freely speaking their language and promoting their culture and traditions and even running their own state or region like the various states in USA or Kurdistan Iraq but do really think that a landlocked independent Kurdistan inside Borders of Turkey would be good for Kurds knowing that it would be very poor?

Iraqi Kurdistan is doing reasonably well because it’s not fully independent from Iraq and gets oil money from Iraq but even then most of the money stays with the ruling tribe the Barzanis. As you know Kurds are very tribal just like Pashtuns . That’s why something similar is happening in Afghanistan with the ruling Taliban tribes main difference being they don’t have all the oil money. I have relatives who are doing well in Iraqi Kurdistan but it’s because they are somehow connected with ruling Barzanis

As you know Afghanistan became independent from Iran in the 18th century and it’s also a landlocked country like a Kurdistan would be. Right now thousands of people are dying from starvation! There are no jobs. Poor people are freezing in the winter because thousands don’t have a roof over their head never mind heaters ! Millions ofcourse have fled the country. With no food and no roof thousands are sick but there’s no healthcare!

Look at neigboring Khorasan and Sistan province in Iran though and it’s very different than across the border in Afghanistan. Do you that the Afghans would have been in this super bad condition today with thousands dying (worst than most African countries) if they were still part of Iran ?

In fact, without oil and natural gas other Central Asian landlocked countries such as Turkmenistan and Kazakhstan would also be quite poorer

Also Turkey being scared of Kurds seperating banning Kurdii in schools for a while to try to erase separate identity of Turks from Kurds was a bad idea and created more separatist Kurds and I’m glad they changed their policy on it. All in all though Kurds are doing pretty well being part of Turkey. They are in government positions, also able to get descent work, put food on the table and live quite well. Ofcourse Turkey was created by Kurds and Turks working together just like they did in Ottomen empire.

You know what if Kurds use their heads they will also realize that the percentage of school kids that are Kurds is even higher than the percentage of Kurds in Turkey population which means kurd population growing faster than Turk population and in a few years it will be a Turkey run by both kurds and Turks.

Turkey has alot of natural beauty and some of my relatives in Iraqi Kurdistan spend their summers on the Mediterranean in homes they own in Antalya and Mersin

If you go to Kandahar Afghanistan you’ll think you went back in time before Jesus time




Some people even have to live in the middle of desert because they can’t afford to pay $15 per month rent for a broken hut inside Kandahar !
Besides not having food can you imagine sleeping when at night temperature is 4 degrees celcius

[Mejgusu]

Personally I would say Kurds deserve an own state. But I think they would dispute with Armenians and other groups besides of Turks/Iranians. Maybe Near East needs a conference without foreign powers to define their borders. In the past I was against an independent Kurdish nation but nearly everywhere they were ignored and treated badly, now some say they are backward people. Without any investments, any schools/education, any roads to other places many were kept inside their own world. But I think that should happen without violence against civilians, terrorists like pkk aren’t fighting for freedom.

Iran will break up for sure, Turkey never

You opened a thread about Iranian women who want freedom, but say such thinks too. That is something what I noticed among Turks, hating Iran and Iranians but celebrating current women freedom movement against Mullahs? Every time I am saying that they say we just hate the regime there but usually they are just insulting Iran and Iranians.

[Demhat]

Dude, if US never fucked up Saddam, i dont think there would even be a kurdistan province in iraq.

If it wasn't for the Brits and French to begin with Saddam andthis Iraq thing wouldn't even exist in the first place. Know the history.

Youre right about colonization, but i still dont see at all how kurds would wrestle lands from iran and turkey. I just dont. Im not against it(seriously, all power to the kurds), i just dont support it. I dont support any ethno-states, no matter what, if it means to topple "superpowers". No personal feelings here(if i knew they could do it, and most kurds support it, which im not even sure, got an impression that such wish for ethno-state is amongst a minority of kurds only in both Iran and turkey by non-kurds from these countries, but im not fully sure? If so, i would support it), so you dont need to get personal either.

The lack of ethno states in that very region is the reason for political instability for centuries. The countries which suffer most under civil war and other political turmoils are those fake states which are not based on ethnic origins. See Syria, see Afghanistan, Pakistan see Iraq and so on. They are basically designed like this by the colonial powers (who you accuse of supporting Kurds) so the region never finds rest. It's called building states with strong potential for civil war and instability. Like Iraq. Forget about the Kurds there. The Shia and Sunni Iraqis are literally beating the shit out of each other. You are just in massive denial.

I would rather support "kurdistan" as a province instead in each country, like theyre sort of now in turkey and Iran(if you can call them that), rather than as a ethno-state(which i get the impression kurdistan is meant to be).

Well that is your opinion and let me tell you something as long as this part of the world does not redraw borders based on ethnic alliances it will never gain stability. You will see.

Arent US funding you guys? If youre indeed just fighting with AK's, thats something though, not sure how much an impact US support have for kurds
https://www.euractiv.com/section/glo...turkish-drone/

They are "funding us" on the political platform and putting pressure on certain countries. But they haven't armed us a shit. We have no air defence nore Tanks. Fucking hell even ISIS had tanks before us. What the US occassionally does is give us air cover vs ISIS tanks. But they don't do this when certain countries strike from the air.

[Demhat]

I’m all for every ethnic group freely speaking their language and promoting their culture and traditions and even running their own state or region like the various states in USA or Kurdistan Iraq but do really think that a landlocked independent Kurdistan inside Borders of Turkey would be good for Kurds knowing that it would be very poor?

I am seriously having doubt that there is a single real Kurd on this board. I actually know who you are. I have nothing against you claiming to be Kurd but please don't go too far when it comes to politics.

A fully independent Kurdistan would not be landlocked at least we would make sure of that because anyone knows independence movements and war are not simply about the places where you make up the majority now. See how demographic changes can happen like in Efrin.

2. A independent Kurdistan would at least certanly run better than Syria or Iraq. If not even better than Turkey and even Iran.

Iraqi Kurdistan is doing reasonably well because it’s not fully independent from Iraq and gets oil money from Iraq but even then most of the money stays with the ruling tribe the Barzanis. As you know Kurds are very tribal just like Pashtuns . That’s why something similar is happening in Afghanistan with the ruling Taliban tribes main difference being they don’t have all the oil money. I have relatives who are doing well in Iraqi Kurdistan but it’s because they are somehow connected with ruling Barzanis

Iraqi Kurdistan is not doing well because it is still part of Iraq you completely confuse causation and correlation. Iraqi Kurdistan is actually hindered from doing better by belonging to the political and ethnic instable mess called Iraq.

They can't sell their own oil freely and give more to that countries GDP than they actually get out from it. Nepotism is a big part of any country in that region. It is nothing special for Kurds not has it much to do with tribalism. Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and even Turkey and Iran (which have more a nepotism based on political and religious class). You even find nepotism in Germany even if at lower level. Nepotism is part of human nature. The level of nepotism is what differentiates quasi democratic nations from a dictatorship. Nepotism becomes just more visible when political agenda and media from outside tells you it is bad and makes you believe you would do better under different leadership. But it could also end even worse. See Gaddafi and Lybia.

Pashtun tribalism is much more hardcore and based on the ancient traditions of Pashtunwali. As I wrote Nepotism has different levels and layers. Pashtun tribalism is the most extreme form of nepotism combined with very radical ethno-tribalism. It is not comparable to the nepotism found in Kurdistan.

Also Could you please stop comparing Kurds to Pashtuns on every field like do you have personal reasons for it? Nothing against Pashtuns but what is this obsession for Pashtuns everytime something about Kurds comes up?

[Demhat]

It doesn't matter what some random people think on this kind of boards anyways. It's not like Kurdistan will gain independence if everyone says yes or lose the chance of independence if everyone says no. This kind of thread are only good to seperate friend from foe that's it nothing more.

It is ironic that certain people will use any argument to oppose the creation of a independent Kurdistan. But the very same dickriders would be totally oh yes yes when it came to asking about a independent Palestine while a independent Palestine would face the same or even more obstacles. But suddenly these "arguments" don't matter anymore because it is about "humanitarian" rights isn't it.

[happycow]

I don't know

[Zoro]

I am seriously having doubt that there is a single real Kurd on this board. I actually know who you are. I have nothing against you claiming to be Kurd but please don't go too far when it comes to politics.

Actually you have no idea who I really am if you think I’m not an Iraqi Kurd. My family were among the original settlers in Dohuk. Even now with a Dohuk that’s 20 times bigger most of Dohuk knows my family because we’re well known politicians. I have lived in Iraqi Kurdistan for many years and speak Kurdi with my family members. Some of my relatives were peshmerga during the Sadam years and ended up in Iran

Do you really think it’s logical for a non Kurd to spend so much of his time writing about Kurds and going into this level of detail?

It kind of pisses me off that a Kurd from Turkey who probably has never even been to Iraqi Kurdistan is telling me how things work in Iraqi Kurdistan and politics there when my relatives founded Dohuk, are part of the political system there and I have lived amongst them. Yes it’s still all about the tribe in higher political positions or higher paying positions.



2.

A independent Kurdistan would at least certanly run better than Syria or Iraq. If not even better than Turkey and even Iran.

I can sort of agree based on the situation in the autonomous region but things can be different when it’s a country. Again I say Kurds are very tribal. Even now there’s tension between Talabani and Barzani and I’m pretty sure there will be fighting among tribes for leadership.

They can't sell their own oil freely and give more to that countries GDP than they actually get out from it.

What oil? If you’re referring to Kirkuk since when was it exclusively Kurd city? I agree though that Turkmen would be better off under a Kurdistan than Iraq

Also Could you please for stop comparing Kurds to Pashtuns on every field like do you have personal reasons for it? Nothing against Pashtuns but what is this obsession for Pashtuns everytime something about Kurds comes up?

It’s natural for a person to compare 2 peoples one has affinity to and knows well

[Applesandoranges]

If it wasn't for the Brits and French to begin with Saddam andthis Iraq thing wouldn't even exist in the first place. Know the history.



The lack of ethno states in that very region is the reason for political instability for centuries. The countries which suffer most under civil war and other political turmoils are those fake states which are not based on ethnic origins. See Syria, see Afghanistan, see Iraq and so on. They are basically design like this by the western powers (who you accuse of supporting Kurds) so the region never finds rest. It's called building states with strong potential for civil war and instability. Like Iraq. Forget about the Kurds there. The Shia and Sunni Iraqis are literally beating the shit out of each other. You are just in massive denial.



Well that is your opinion and let me tell you something as long as this part of the world does not redraw borders based on ethnic alliances it will never gain stability. You will see.




They are "funding us" on the political platform and putting pressure on certain countries. But they haven't armed us a shit. We have no air defence nore Tanks. Fucking hell even ISIS had tanks before us. What the US occassionally does is give us air cover vs ISIS tanks. But they don't do this when certain countries strike from the air.

Im not sure you can call Afghanistan fake, since it already existed before westerners even came? But anyways, i get your point.

I just said that i know theyre colonist countries. I didnt deny anything.



All im just saying is that i dont see kurds taking lands from turkey and Iran, countries still staying and not fucked by the west yet. And if saddam wasnt fucked, Iraq would be a stable country. I dont care too much.

Again, do the vast majority of kurds in turkey and iran support an independant country? If so, i would be more in favour instead of neutral(neither against it, nor supporting it)

[SilverKnight]

Yes, except the Iranian side.

[Annihilus]

After Pkk's fall inside Türkiye since 2015, many Assyrians from Mesopotamia started to return to their ancestral lands around Mardin to rebuild their houses and churches.









Assyrians restored their 1700 years old Church, after spending 30 years in Germany because of Pkk terror.