European Genetic Clusters

[Mingle]

Was thinking of including more than just Europe, but there isn't as much easily available info regarding regions outside Europe and this is a European forum anyways, so this thread is just gonna stay simple and be about genetic clusters in the context of Europeans. Let me know what you think of these anyways.

Northwest European
• British Isles
• Scandinavia
• Northwest Germany
• Benelux
• Northern France

Celto-Germanic
• Eastern & Central France
• West-Central Germany
• Southern Germany
• Switzerland
• Tyrol & Vorarlberg

Iberian
• Spain
• Portugal
• Andorra

Vasconic
• Basque Country
• Navarre
• Gascony

Sardinian
• Sardinia

Italo-Gallic
• Southern France
• North Italy

Danubian
• Slovenia
• Northwest Croatia
• Hungary
• Eastern & Central Austria
• Northern Romania
• Moldova

Slavo-Germanic
• Northeast Germany
• Czechia
• Slovakia

Central-East European
• Poland
• Ukraine
• Belarus
• Western Russia

Baltic
• Latvia
• Lithuania
• Northeast Poland

Northeast European
• Finland
• Estonia
• North Russia

West Dinaric
• Southern Croatia
• Bosnia & Herzegovina
• Western & Northern Serbia
• Prechani Serbs
• Slavonia

East Dinaric
• Montenegro
• Southern & Eastern Serbia
• Central Romania

Eastern Balkan
• Wallachia
• Bulgaria
• Vardar Macedonia
• Balkan Turks

Adriatic-Ionian
• Kosovo
• Albania
• Mainland Greece
• Ionian Islands
• Cyclades
• Central Italy
• Central-South Italy

Aegean-Ionian
• North Aegean
• Crete
• Dodecanese
• South Italy
• Malta

[Peterski]

North-East Poland (Podlaskie) clusters with West Belarus and South-East Poland (Lubelskie) with West Ukraine. But West Ukraine does not cluster with East Ukraine (so you cannot call all of Ukraine one cluster, they are not homogeneous), and many Russians are far to the east.

Eurogenes K15/K13 Ukrainian reference (the one with no geographical label) are Western Ukrainians from Volhynia, who plot close to Ukrainians from Lviv, a bit more to the north.

Even Russian with recent German and Polish ancestry such as Not a Cop plots far away from Lukasz (who is mixed Central-Eastern Pole) on 2019 Apricity PCA:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...9-Apricity-PCA



Eastern (and some Central) Ukrainians are closer to Ukraine Belgorod than to Ukraine Lviv.

As for East Germans:

Silver Lining is 3/4 Eastern German and 1/4 Bavarian, and look how he is modeled by GEDmatch Eurogenes K15/K13 (he did not post his coordinates, but draw a line between Croatia and North Sweden on that PCA, and put a dot exactly in the middle, and this is probably more or less how Silver Lining would plot there):

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...=1#post5480491

50% North_Swedish + 50% Croat

^^^
His Eastern German is from Pommern and Sudetenland.

[Leto]

North-East Poland (Podlaskie) clusters with West Belarus and South-East Poland (Lubelskie) with West Ukraine. But West Ukraine does not cluster with East Ukraine (so you cannot call all of Ukraine one cluster, they are not homogeneous), and many Russians are far to the east.

Eurogenes K15/K13 Ukrainian reference (the one with no geographical label) are Western Ukrainians from Volhynia, who plot close to Ukrainians from Lviv, a bit more to the north.

Even Russian with recent German and Polish ancestry such as Not a Cop plots far away from Lukasz (who is mixed Central-Eastern Pole) on 2019 Apricity PCA:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...9-Apricity-PCA



Eastern (and some Central) Ukrainians are closer to Ukraine Belgorod than to Ukraine Lviv.

As for East Germans:

Silver Lining is 3/4 Eastern German and 1/4 Bavarian, and look how he is modeled by GEDmatch Eurogenes K15/K13 (he did not post his coordinates, but draw a line between Croatia and North Sweden on that PCA, and put a dot exactly in the middle, and this is probably more or less how Silver Lining would plot there):

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...=1#post5480491



^^^
His Eastern German is from Pommern and Sudetenland.

You can't generalize entire populations judging by one or two individuals. And who says that K15 is 100% accurate?
I. is my father and look where he plots

[Peterski]

You can't generalize entire populations judging by one or two individuals.

I'm not doing this, I have seen hundreds of results from these ethnic groups.

[Leto]

I'm not doing this, I have seen hundreds of results from these ethnic groups.

Well, according to that map which I still find interesting SW Finns are closer to Poles than E Germans are to Austrians. Kind of doubtful to me.

[Gründig]

Cool. I fall into the northwest European and Celto-Germanic clusters.

North eastern France borders western and southern Germany, not really central or "middle".

[Peterski]

Italo-Gallic
• Southern France
• North Italy

South-West France is much closer to Iberia than to North Italy.

[Sikeliot]

South-West France is much closer to Iberia than to North Italy.

I might put all three of them together into one cluster and consider it Ibero-Gallic, since North Italy is more Gallic than Italic.

[Mingle]

North-East Poland (Podlaskie) clusters with West Belarus and South-East Poland (Lubelskie) with West Ukraine. But West Ukraine does not cluster with East Ukraine (so you cannot call all of Ukraine one cluster, they are not homogeneous), and many Russians are far to the east.

Eurogenes K15/K13 Ukrainian reference (the one with no geographical label) are Western Ukrainians from Volhynia, who plot close to Ukrainians from Lviv, a bit more to the north.

Even Russian with recent German and Polish ancestry such as Not a Cop plots far away from Lukasz (who is mixed Central-Eastern Pole) on 2019 Apricity PCA:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...9-Apricity-PCA



Eastern (and some Central) Ukrainians are closer to Ukraine Belgorod than to Ukraine Lviv.

How would you divide, Poland, Ukraine, Belarus, and Russia then? I'm not too informed on their genetic diversity, how many clusters they'd comprise of, how to draw the boundaries of said clusters, etc.

Would you agree with grouping Suwalki and Warmia under 'Baltic' and then creating a separate cluster for Podlaskie, Western Belarus, and Western Ukraine? Which clusters would Silesia (Upper Silesia & Czech Silesia) and Galicia (Red Ruthenia) fall under?

[Token]

Iberians, North Italians and South French should be together in a Southwest European or Celto-Romance(?) group, all of them cluster very tightly together.