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Thread: Origins of Germans in Mecklenburg and Brandenburg

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    Post Origins of Germans in Mecklenburg and Brandenburg

    Distribution of ethnic groups around the year 850 AD:



    Eastward migration of German peasants after 1100 AD:



    Political expansion of Brandenburg (Askanian Dynasty):



    =====

    The main literary source about those events is Saxom historian, Helmold: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmold

    Helmold, "Slavic Chronicle", Chapter 57 - "Foundation of the city of Lübeck" - about colonization of Wagria:



    "(...) Count Adolf started building the castle of Segeberg and fortified it. Because the land was ravaged, he sent messengers to many regions, namely to Flanders, Holland, Utrecht, Westphalia and Frisia, with a message that if they needed more land they were free to come with their families, and they would be given a lot of good fertile land, full of fish and game, rich in vast pastures. He also told Holsatians and Sturmarians: 'Aren't you the ones who conquered Slavic land and obtained it through deaths of your brothers and relatives? So why should you settle as the last ones? Be first, start migrating to this desired land, settle it and benefit from its resources' (...). After that call, huge crowds of people from various nations started coming, together with their families and property, to the land of the Wagrians ruled by Adolf, who promised to give them land.

    Holsatians were given safe areas to the west of Segeberg, near the Trave river, including the Zuentineveld [modern Bornhöved] fields as well as everything between the river Schwale up to Agrimesov [modern Grimmeisberg] and up to Lake Plön.

    The region of Dargun [modern Warder and Ahrensbök/Stoob] was settled by Westphalians.

    The region of Utyn [Eutin] was settled by Hollanders.

    The region of Süsel [south-east of Eutin] was settled by Frisians.

    The region of Plön still remained depopulated for the time being.

    Regions of Starogard [Oldenburg] and Lutjenburg as well as other areas along the sea coast were left for farming to the Slavs, who now had to pay rent to Count Adolf (...)".


    =====

    Helmold, "Slavic Chronicle", Chapter 91 - about colonization of Mecklenburg:



    "Heinrich, Count of Ratzeburg in the land of Polabian Slavs, brought masses of Westphalian settlers, in order for them to settle in the land of the Slavs. And he divided the land between them. And they built churches, and they started paying taxes from their farming income for the Glory of God. And God's deed started to spread throughout the land of the Slavs under Heinrich's reign, and was completed during the reign of his son, Bernard. On the other hand, Holsatians who settled in Wagria after expulsion of local Slavs, were very zealous when it comes to building new churches, and were very hospitable, but they avoided paying taxes. (...)"

    =====

    Helmold, "Slavic Chronicle", Chapter 88 titled "About Albrecht the Bear":



    "At that time Slavic lands were ruled by Margrave Albrecht, also known as the Bear, who - thanks to God's grace - managed to conquer large Slavic territories. He captured entire land of Stodoranians, Brezans and many other tribes living at the Elbe and Havel rivers. And he was crushing those of them who were trying to rebel against his rule. When decimated Slavs started to slowly disappear, Albrecht sent messangers to Utrecht and to lands along the Rhine river and also to those who lived along the ocean's coast and suffered a lot from violent storms of the sea - namely Hollanders, Zealanders and Flemish people - and he brought many settlers from among them, and he settled them within Slavic towns and villages. Thanks to that colonization by foreigners, the Bishopric of Brandenburg and Havelberg increased its strength, because the number of churches and tax income increased. But also southern banks of the Elbe river were at that time colonized by Dutch newcomers, they settled lands around Salzwedel, and Balsemerland [around Stendal and Halberstadt], and Marscinerland [between Arneburg and Werben], with many towns and villages, extending as far as the Bohemian Forest. (...)"

    =====

    Polish edition of Helmold's chronicle (in PDF):

    http://bc.wimbp.lodz.pl/Content/1233..._kronika_a.pdf

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    So when Germans in Central & Eastern Germany score e.g. "Dutch" or "Belgian" DNA, it is not a mistake - they really came from there.

    If they score e.g. "Dutch + Ukrainian", it means they are partly descended from local Wends or Sorbs, and partly from Dutch settlers.

    =====

    Edit:

    About Y-DNA in Saxony-Anhalt in the Early Middle Ages: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...=1#post5761143
    Last edited by Peterski; 01-27-2019 at 09:15 AM.

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    Okay, thread opened. But two rules:

    1. No trolling
    2. No off-topic

    =====

    Edit:

    I wrote more about Wagria in particular before, here:

    https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...rthern-Germany

    According to Helmold's "Slavic Chronicle" ("Chronica Slavorum") after the conquest of Wagria by crusaders, Slavic inhabitants (the tribe of Wagrians) were relocated to a reserve around Oldenburg and Lütjenburg, where a church with sermons in Slavic was established for them. Another church with sermons in German was built in Ratekau.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lütjenburg

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratekau

    Lütjenburg (Małogród/Lutynia) and Oldenburg (Starogard) areas remained Slavic-inhabited:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldenburg_in_Holstein

    Map: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...te_Wagrien.jpg



    Atlas of Slavic Toponyms in Germany:

    https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...yms-in-Germany

    Map: https://i.imgur.com/idFh2az.jpg



    Maps showing ethnic groups of Wagria during the Early Middle Ages:

    https://www.academia.edu/25218901/Wa...stern_Holstein





    Last edited by Peterski; 01-27-2019 at 05:40 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peterski View Post
    Okay, thread opened. But two rules:

    1. No trolling
    2. No off-topic
    I believe my deep paternal side (the German side) was from Mecklenburg...my father does indeed score some 3 or so percent Eastern Euro on 23andme (he wouldn't really feasibly get it from anywhere else)...plus we are R-M417. I'm sure many in the northeast are indeed partly descent from Sorbian-related Polabians/Obotrites and the like...although I think folks on anthroforums overstate the impact a bit. I wouldn't be utterly shocked if the occasional northeast German with deep roots in the area could be close to western Poles, though.

    23 and me also asserts he has ancestry all over the Netherlands...do you think it may be genuine migrations from the Netherlands to N.E Germany? I realise it could be reflecting other lineages, and/or relatives who moved in more recent decades...

    Nice thread.
    Last edited by CordedWhelp; 01-26-2019 at 02:11 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peterski View Post
    Okay, thread opened. But two rules:

    1. No trolling
    2. No off-topic
    Every comment is trolling for you which is not german hater and don't agree with you. That's why you deleted this same post 10 minutes ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kis_Kócos View Post
    Every comment is trolling for you which is not german hater and don't agree with you.
    I wonder how are my posts supposedly "German-hating" if I only use German sources (such as Helmold von Bosau).

    If anything we should argue that Helmold was a Slavic-hating source, because he was describing it from German POV.

    Are you some kind of an Ostsiedlung-denier or what?

    Do you also deny Magyar migration and Magyarization?
    Last edited by Peterski; 01-26-2019 at 02:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CordedWhelp View Post
    23 and me also asserts he has ancestry all over the Netherlands...do you think it may be genuine migrations from the Netherlands to N.E Germany?
    Yeah I think it is probable.

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    "Everything I want is slavic" - the emotional child guide to Peterski's mindset.

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    My Y comes from Wagria, but it's Germanic in origin however.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teutone View Post
    "Everything I want is slavic" - the emotional child guide to Peterski's mindset.
    Did you even read the opening post or is your IQ too low to be able to understand written text ???

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