What do you guys think of so called "niceguys"?

[Mary]

Would you say that these "nice guys" are actually nice, or are they as the stereotype depicts them?

1) Let me give you an example: there are plenty of women who are over 30, fat, refuse sex, and refuse to run a household. But they are "really good girls".

a) As in: "she's a really good girl, she has an education and a career, I don't understand why marriage and kids haven't happened for her yet."

b) Are the women in this example actually good girls? No they don't have anything to offer a man, so they're hoping to just say some stuff, and some guy will fall for it.

2) The same applies to Nice Guys: it's usually a guy who's socially awkward, who doesn't have a lot going for him, and he tries to date above his league.

[ModernMaskil]

1) At your service. Nice Guy is a term that some guys use to describe themselves when they have nothing else to offer a woman: no looks, no skills, no intelligence, no money. But get this: they're really nice. As a woman you want to avoid someone who actively calls himself a Nice Guy.

2) I don't think it's in opposition to Bad Boy because that's a phenomenon limited to trash hoes fucking their drug dealer. So the argument "at least I'm not a drug dealer" is not really a selling point.

Wow, I was only joking beforehand but I genuinely agree with you for once.

[Borealis]

1) Let me give you an example: there are plenty of women who are over 30, fat, refuse sex, and refuse to run a household. But they are "really good girls".

a) As in: "she's a really good girl, she has an education and a career, I don't understand why marriage and kids haven't happened for her yet."

b) Are the women in this example actually good girls? No they don't have anything to offer a man, so they're hoping to just say some stuff, and some guy will fall for it.

2) The same applies to Nice Guys: it's usually a guy who's socially awkward, who doesn't have a lot going for him, and he tries to date above his league.

Are they nice in terms of character though? As in, are they courteous, polite, loving, empathetic, etc? I understand you have different definitions for "good".

[Mary]

Are they nice in terms of character though? As in, are they courteous, polite, loving, empathetic, etc? I understand you have different definitions for "good".

1) What I'm trying to say is that relationships are transactional, a "tit for tat" type of thing.

2) People have a "Maslow's hierarchy" of needs, for example,

a) It's good if one of the parties has a home, because living on the street sucks.

b) It's good if someone has an income, so you can pay your bills, and get food.

c) It's good if the person is attractive so you can get sex.

d) It's good if the person is stable, it makes life easier.

e) It's good if the person is socially normal so that you can bring them around family and friends.

f) It's also good if the person is "nice".

3) If a guy lives with his mom, doesn't have a job, is not hot, and is socially awkward, then he doesn't fulfill most needs that a woman has. It doesn't matter if he's really nice, because more basic needs are not met.

4) If a guy owns a home, has a job, and is attractive, then it doesn't matter if he's genuinely not nice, because he meets a lot of more important needs.

5) A Nice Guy is going to look at some rich and handsome guy who's dating a model and conclude that "Nice Guys finish last!"

a) The reality is that rich and handsome guys finish before poor and unattractive guys. Just like models finish before fat and ugly girls.

[Borealis]

1) What I'm trying to say is that relationships are transactional, a "tit for tat" type of thing.

2) People have a "Maslow's hierarchy" of needs, for example,

a) It's good if one of the parties has a home, because living on the street sucks.

b) It's good if someone has an income, so you can pay your bills, and get food.

c) It's good if the person is attractive so you can get sex.

d) It's good if the person is stable, it makes life easier.

e) It's good if the person is socially normal so that you can bring them around family and friends.

f) It's also good if the person is "nice".

3) If a guy lives with his mom, doesn't have a job, is not hot, and is socially awkward, then he doesn't fulfill most needs that a woman has. It doesn't matter if he's really nice, because more basic needs are not met.

4) If a guy owns a home, has a job, and is attractive, then it doesn't matter if he's genuinely not nice, because he meets a lot of more important needs.

5) A Nice Guy is going to look at some rich and handsome guy who's dating a model and conclude that "Nice Guys finish last!"

a) The reality is that rich and handsome guys finish before poor and unattractive guys. Just like models finish before fat and ugly girls.

How do you explain decently attractive females that are stuck with guys that are low life scum just because they're assholes? Doesn't that go against your entire theory?

[Mary]

Rich and handsome guys get to set the rules,

[Mary]

This guy is probably still a virgin,

[Mary]

Nice girls finishing last,

[Mary]

How do you explain decently attractive females that are stuck with guys that are low life scum just because they're assholes? Doesn't that go against your entire theory?

1) Again: relationships are transactional. That means the low life scum has something that the girl needs or wants, for example,

a) The girl might be trash herself and she wants that lifestyle.

b) The guy might be attractive, or she enjoys fucking him.

c) The girl can't get another guy.

2) No one is with a guy because he is an asshole. They are with a guy despite him being an asshole because he has other qualities that makes up for it.

3) For every negative quality that a man has, there has to be a positive quality that makes up for it.

[Mary]

1) I'll give you boys a personal example: when I was young my man used to slap me around. But he was also attractive, intelligent, and I enjoyed having sex with him.

a) Do the maths on this: slaps me around vs hot, smart, and good sex. Clearly the positives outweigh the negatives.

b) Put yourself in the same situation: a girl that is hot, a good cook, and fucks you whenever you want vs she hits you if you make her angry.

c) Would you leave that girl or would you just not make her angry so that you can maximize the benefits and minimize the costs?