Do Italian Americans have a stronger or weaker MENA element than South Italians/Sicilians back home?

[Sikeliot]

IMO... no. And it's not just due to North European admixture from Irish, Germans, and Brits in the Italian American population.

If you look through these photos from Sicily: https://www.facebook.com/pg/PINKCODE...os/?tab=albums

or these from Calabria: https://www.facebook.com/pg/nomasdis...=page_internal

I do not see a lot of the robust, flat featured Berid types that we often see amongst Italian Americans. They do not look like the faces from old Mafia movies, at all. I see, instead, the tendency toward a Gracile Med phenotypical base which also carries over into a gracile body build and facial structure, combined with pointy features (Dinaro-Med and even Armenoid influences being stronger than amongst Italian Americans), and fewer light hair and eyes than what is occurring amongst the fully Italian American populations even without Northern European influences. The image of intimidating, masculine mafioso types does not reflect.

I'd also say that I think the people in Sicily and Calabria today look moderately more Near Eastern/Levant shifted than the average for Italian Americans, and despite Italian and Jewish Americans often being confused, I think today's Sicilian population looks even more similar to Ashkenazim than do Italian Americans.

I can think of the following explanations for why this may be:

1. Italian Americans get some of their features from other parts of Italy which look slightly different than Sicily and Calabria, such as in and around Naples, the inland parts of Campania, and Abruzzo. As such, despite looking related, Italian Americans will not look distinctly Sicilian or Calabrian and in fact will have combinations of features that do not occur amongst more isolated Italian villages.

2. Actual Italian Americans look more similar to the people in the above links, but media stereotypes have led us to view the types in Mafia movies as average and stereotypical when in real life only a minority of people look like this.

3. My own samples are biased and comparing all Italian Americans to people from Palermo and Reggio Calabria is not going to capture all the variation even amongst people who are fully Sicilian and Calabrian in the US.

[JMack]

I'm not going to enter in this polemic about South Italians again (actually I don't even care about them that much nowadays), but I'll make you three questions (you don't need to answer, they are rethorical):

1- How many times you visited Southern Italy? I think your doubts all emerge from that. Until visiting a place we can never capture the whole phenotypical variation and local vibes.

2- Why do you equate 'Southern Italy' with small particular regions inside it? Following your own argument one could ask ''why South Italians look Balkan''? Using for proxy South Italians people from Apulia (I don't think they look Balkan, I'm just following your reasoning).

3- How your American experience makes you biased toward South Italians? I think that's an explanation for most of your ideas about them.

That said, for me, most of these questions are vicious because almost no one (in this forum, in the world, whatever) share them.

[Sikeliot]

bump

[Sikeliot]

I'm not going to enter in this polemic about South Italians again (actually I don't even care about them that much nowadays), but I'll make you three questions (you don't need to answer, they are rethorical):

1- How many times you visited Southern Italy? I think your doubts all emerge from that. Until visiting a place we can never capture the whole phenotypical variation and local vibes.

2- Why do you equate 'Southern Italy' with small particular regions inside it? Following your own argument one could ask ''why South Italians look Balkan''? Using for proxy South Italians people from Apulia (I don't think they look Balkan, I'm just following your reasoning).

3- How your American experience makes you biased toward South Italians? I think that's an explanation for most of your ideas about them.

That said, for me, most of these questions are vicious because almost no one (in this forum, in the world, whatever) share them.

1. None, but I have seen group photos from nearly every province in Sicily, Calabria, and Campania and am comparing them to fully Italian Americans I know in my family and outside of it.

2. I am not equating them, I am considering in my question that there are regions I have less exposure to that are influencing the phenotype of Italian Americans and creating some of the differences I see when compared to Sicilians/Calabrians.

3. I could not answer this.

[Smeagol]

Italian-Americans look less MENA than the crowd photos of South Italians/Sicilians posted on this forum in my opinion.

[Sikeliot]

Italian-Americans look less MENA than the crowd photos of South Italians/Sicilians posted on this forum in my opinion.

Why do you think this is?

My guess is Italian Americans have a substantial element from Campania and Abruzzo, and when compared to just Sicilians and Calabrians of course the MENA will be more subdued. I do think it's present, though, but probably to a lesser extent.

[Smeagol]

Why do you think this is?

My guess is Italian Americans have a substantial element from Campania and Abruzzo, and when compared to just Sicilians and Calabrians of course the MENA will be more subdued. I do think it's present, though, but probably to a lesser extent.

Probably that as well as north Euro influence in "Italian"-Americans to a degree.

[Sikeliot]

Probably that as well as north Euro influence in "Italian"-Americans to a degree.

It's actually interesting because I think the Italian Americans I've seen from New Jersey have a stronger Levantine look than those in other states. Might mean more people coming from specific provinces. But overall I think these sorts of looks are more common in Italian Americans than in Sicily, whereas the reverse is true for more distinct Near Eastern types.

Most Sicilians I see do not have this build or look overall... these 2 are actually of Campanian descent. This might make the difference somewhat.

[Chaos One]

Everytime I think about a Southern Italian in US Buddy Valastro appears in my mind.

[Sikeliot]

Everytime I think about a Southern Italian in US Buddy Valastro appears in my mind.

He looks a bit Assyrian.

Vote above? What is your opinion based on what you've seen?