US Defense Sec: NATO faces a "dim, if not dismal" future

[SwordoftheVistula]

Agreed, and I think these are all good things. But, do we really need NATO for this? The European nations certainly need our support if they want their militaries to go to the gym, but the converse doesn't seem to be true. The only real reason I can think is that engaging in this kind of behavior under a NATO banner adds an outward appearance of legitimacy that it mightn't have if we went it alone.

I don't know how many liberal votes this 'legitimacy' pulls for neoconservatives. Probably none in the case of Republican Presidents, but maybe enough in the case of Democrat Presidents. The only people who really vote on foreign policy anyways are those who have a connection to a foreign country (mainly Jews & Cubans, these days, with the Irish situation having died down)

Russia is still a potential threat

To do...what, exactly? At the present time, they're a major oil exporter which is not a part of OPEC, and are fighting with Islamic minorities on their borders, which means it would make sense to make friends with them. Also, if one is under the impression that China is a threat, Russia would make the most sensible ally by far.

With a rising non-Western world why would we choose NOW of all times to destroy the Atlantic alliance, and why would we want to do things that tend to dissolve ties between America and Europe anyway?

Ever hear the quote the Germans made (too late) about their alliance with Austria-Hungary? 'Chained to a corpse'

[Joe McCarthy]

To do...what, exactly? At the present time, they're a major oil exporter which is not a part of OPEC, and are fighting with Islamic minorities on their borders, which means it would make sense to make friends with them. Also, if one is under the impression that China is a threat, Russia would make the most sensible ally by far.
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Russia could be an ally against China, but if NATO ends and we pull out, Russia being Russia, will likely look to impose itself on its near periphery. What the anti-American set is ignorant of is a decline in US power doesn't result in some 'liberation' from imaginary American evils. It results in someone worse filling the power vacuum we create, and Russia is not a responsible power that should be able to turn much of Eastern and Northern Europe into its sphere of influence again. They're too much of a source of instability.

[Joe McCarthy]

I just want to observe that we apparently just had two Europeans thank an American for calling Europe a 'corpse'. I think anti-Americanism is a form of mental illness.

[Birka]

True, though we won't lose in Afghanistan as long as we stay there.

And how long would that be? We have already been there longer than WWII and longer than the Vietnam police action.

We are $14.4 Trillion in current debt, and $60 Trillion in unfunded future liabilities (Medicare and Social Security...).

Where do you see this magical funding coming from for continued military conflicts through out the Middle East?

[Joe McCarthy]

And how long would that be? We have already been there longer than WWII and longer than the Vietnam police action.

We are $14.4 Trillion in current debt, and $60 Trillion in unfunded future liabilities (Medicare and Social Security...).

Where do you see this magical funding coming from for continued military conflicts through out the Middle East?

As I've noted elsewhere on this board, defense spending as a percentage of GDP is about what it was in the 80s. It isn't breaking us - an aging population and entitlement liabilities is. We can take pin prick losses in Afghanistan indefinitely (as European powers did in their colonies oftentimes) and staying there has strategic value especially as it could give us position to choke China's oil supply. They're working with Pakistan to devise ways to overcome their weakness with the Strait of Malacca.

[The Lawspeaker]

America is close to a corpse right now.. and we are little better.

[Joe McCarthy]

America is close to a corpse right now.. and we are little better.

We shouldn't hasten our death by weakening the bonds between us. Friends until the end I say.

[poiuytrewq0987]

We shouldn't hasten our death by weakening the bonds between us. Friends until the end I say.

I don't think the US is going to collapse anytime soon. Its economy grew by 4% last year and I won't be surprised if it grows even more this year.

[SwordoftheVistula]

Russia could be an ally against China, but if NATO ends and we pull out, Russia being Russia, will likely look to impose itself on its near periphery. What the anti-American set is ignorant of is a decline in US power doesn't result in some 'liberation' from imaginary American evils. It results in someone worse filling the power vacuum we create, and Russia is not a responsible power that should be able to turn much of Eastern and Northern Europe into its sphere of influence again. They're too much of a source of instability.

So what? Regardless of whether these American evils are imaginary, the Russian ones are too. So Russia reasserts authority over parts of Georgia, or some other place which was part of Russia's 1914 borders, who cares, not relevant, certainly not worth a huge expenditure based on 'might eventually result in."

As I've noted elsewhere on this board, defense spending as a percentage of GDP is about what it was in the 80s. It isn't breaking us - an aging population and entitlement liabilities is. We can take pin prick losses in Afghanistan indefinitely (as European powers did in their colonies oftentimes) and staying there has strategic value especially as it could give us position to choke China's oil supply. They're working with Pakistan to devise ways to overcome their weakness with the Strait of Malacca.

Each US soldier in Afghanistan costs $1 million per year. Also, ending all these wars, and drawing down or eliminating NATO and all these other overseas military installations & operations is politically feasible. All these entitlements programs are much tougher to deal with politically, as we saw from the Republicans losing a once-safe Congressional seat in upstate New York as soon as they proposed reforming these programs. As to trying to choke China's oil supply, that is just a stupid & suicidal idea which would accomplish nothing of value.

I don't think the US is going to collapse anytime soon. Its economy grew by 4% last year and I won't be surprised if it grows even more this year.

Hmm, let's take a look at some of today's economics news headlines:

Dow Jones falls below 12,000

NASDAQ turns negative on year, fueled by weakened Chinese exports and prospect of a 2nd Greek bailout

Housing prices expected to drop 4-5% over coming year

Most Americans will not be able to retire until 70s or 80s

Older people can't retire, younger people can't find jobs

[Joe McCarthy]

With any potential adversary it is always wise to have as many strategic advantages as possible. Should war with China come our position in Afghanistan could be of vital significance.