Italy:south west or south east Europe ethnically?

[Foxy]

Basically there are two theories: the first and most classic puts Italy in Western Europe, denoting it as a south-West country. An other one puts at least all its oriental side in the South-Eastern sphere.

In the specific:

theory A



theory B



Geographically Italy is considered mostly a central-south region.
But what are we ethnically?

[Sikeliot]

I think it's too simplistic to take the country as a whole and put it one way or another because I think you'd have to take it region by region.

The north is southwestern I'd say, due to historical and ethnic ties with southern France (Marseille, Nice, Corsica) but you could also call it south-central. The far south, at least genetically, is south-eastern European and all genetic studies have been pretty consistent with this. Not sure about the rest.

If by ethnically you are implying genetically, then there's a gradient, becoming more southeastern European the further south you go.

[Foxy]

The far south, at least genetically, is south-eastern European and all genetic studies have been pretty consistent with this. Not sure about the rest.

Can you be more specific?

[Sikeliot]

Can you be more specific?

I meant to say I have never seen a study that puts southerners closer to Spaniards/Portuguese/Southern French than to Greeks.

I'll just put it this way. In Turin you're in southwestern Europe, in Syracuse you're in southeastern Europe.

[Foxy]

I meant to say I have never seen a study that puts southerners closer to Spaniards/Portuguese/Southern French than to Greeks.

I'll just put it this way. In Turin you're in southwestern Europe, in Syracuse you're in southeastern Europe.

But Sicily isn't considered Eastern Europe. Apulia, on the contrary, is, and after all Otranto is as East as Danzig. Ethnically I am interested the most in central Italy...

[Sikeliot]

But Sicily isn't considered Eastern Europe. Apulia, on the contrary, is, and after all Otranto is as East as Danzig. Ethnically I am interested the most in central Italy...

In that case-

northern Italy - SW
central Italy - South-Central (transition)
southern Italy - SE

[Mordid]

I would say between.

[El Palleter]

northern Italy - SW

SW because of Genoa and Liguria?

I'll remind you that northern Italy is much much bigger than just Genoa AND that Veneto has a noticeable Slavic and Balkanic influence. Some of this influence I've heard from Italians that it reaches at least the eastern parts of Lombardy (I can't tell to be honest)

central Italy - South-Central (transition)

Whenever people use "central" they seem to be saying that since there are other people farther east (or west) of them, then they are not eastern (or western). It's just a distraction. Like "Central Europe"

southern Italy - SE

My disagreement here would be with Veleda's exclusion of SW Italy (Campania, Sicily)

The very close relationship of Calabrians, Apulians etc with Greece is not in detriment to the eastern orientation of other parts of S. Italy.

[Don]

Where is the South-Central Option?

[Comte Arnau]

I think you know my position already.

North Italians would be South-Westerners (let's forget about a 'Central Europe' now), given the Celtic substrate and the consequent nature of the Rhaeto-Padanian Romance. (However, the Venetic area would be somewhat different, as the history of it leans towards the Adriatic)

The rest of Italians would be Central Southerners, specially Central Italy (Tuscany and Corsica, Rome and the Marches...), as well as Sardinia (this island with a remarkable South-Western input, though). The 'Two Sicilies' would still be Central Southerners to me, but different from Central Italians, being transitional or with a strong tendency towards the South-East. Again, I mainly base myself on previous substrates and posterior ethnolinguistic evolutions.