Ask anything Slovenija related

[rothaer]

In my view, it’s definitely the former. We existed as Slovenes prior to any notion of a possibility of an ethnic state. I don’t see in what sense it could’ve been the other way around. Are you referring to certain Slavic communities across the border (the Windische in Austrian Carinthia or the Slavs of the Resia Valley) not perceiving themselves as part of the (modern) Slovene national body?


I’m adding subsequent additional remarks and — in lack of a strikethrough feature — underlining the relevant passage about which I’m not completely sure anymore.

What you’ve mentioned in the original question regarding “generic Slavs without any particular tribal assignment”: I’ve never put an actual thought to it prior to now. I’ve never before been presented with such an option, to be frank. We aren’t learnt about history in that way, and, thus, I didn’t consider it a possibility. When I later responded to your question regarding potential older political movements, I came back to this and also the other answer (with the identity being formed “top to bottom”), and now I almost have more questions than answers myself. There could well have been influences the other way: “Slovenia” → Slovenes. What, specifically, I cannot say in this point in time.

What I can say with full confidence, though, is that the modern Republic of Slovenia — and any of its predecessors in the twentieth century — didn’t form the Slovenes. And I had this primarily in mind in my original answer. However, I won’t provide such a claim for older periods.

I had this in mind: When the Netherlands separated from the common Germans it happened by maintaining an other High language (High Dutch instead of High German) and in the fringes it was this state that formed who became Dutch and who German. This is visible at the fact that there - in contrast to the German - Danish border f. i. - are no minorities on both sides of the border.

Now, if I'm not mistaken this is also mostly the case as for the Slovene border towards other Slavs. The border seems to me "too perfect" for having followed a prior defined Slovene ethnos, which makes me assume that instead the political border defined what is Slovene (in these border areas, not in the core).

[rothaer]

There are two such historical entities:

The first is Carantania (about which I’ve written a lot in my first reply) and its successor Carinthia. Carinthia — more specifically Gosposvetsko polje / Zollfeld — is commonly perceived as the cradle of Slovenehood and has somewhat of a mythic relevance, the most suitable analogy being with Serbs and (the) Kosovo (field). Minus the chauvinism.

The second is Carniola, whose importance grew as the number of Slovene speakers declined in Carinthia. As the only predominantly Slovene crown land within the Habsburg empire — with Ljubljana as its political and cultural centre — it represented the main Slovene administrative division. Carniolan (kranjski = krainisch) was the synonym for everything Slovene-related (language, people etc.) before that word — Slovene (slovenski = slowenisch) — itself replaced it. It appeared even outside of Carniola, referring to Slovene things in Styria and Carinthia. This applied as well to how other languages referred to Slovene, for example Russian:

Въ русскомъ языкѣ словенскій до ХІХ вѣка называли краинскимъ/крайнскимъ, виндскимъ​, карніольскимъ, карнійскимъ, хорутанскимъ, хорутанско-словенскимъ/хорутано-словенскимъ, крайно-словенскимъ. Съ конца ХІХ вѣка стало преобладать названіе словинскій, затѣмъ вытѣсненною современнымъ словенскій.

From the names listed, one can see that Carantania, Carinthia and Carniola used to be the places that gave relevant descriptive adjectives and proper nouns.

Our flag originates from the national colours (Landesfarben) of the Duchy of Carniola, which, in turn, came from its coat of arms (albeit, there are some disputes regarding the correct colours and their actual origin). It represented the core of the Slovene identity, many times at the expense of other, non-Carniolan ones.

I imagined something like that for Carniola / Krain. Completely new to me is this reference to the Zollfeld which is even north of Klagenfurt. Somewhat Kosovsko polje style, yeah. But if I get you right this reference doesn't cause the small Carinthian proportion within today's Slovenia to be regarded more core Slovenian than Carniola.

[rothaer]

If I first mention some relatively more widely known examples of iconic design from the past:

Rex Chair, a wooden foldable chair:


ETA 85, a landline phone made by the company Iskra:


K67, a modular kiosk made out of polyfiber:



What people mostly take pride in today, though, are food products: our wines, prosciutto (from the Slovene Karst region), pumpkin seed oil (do you know this product?), olive oil, kranjska klobasa (= Krainer Wurst), potica and prekmurska gibanica; basically all protected products/dishes.

Mineral water from Rogaška Slatina is claimed to be with the highest concentration of magnesium, and besides ordinary Donat, they are also selling this expensive version under another brand for Arabic countries and those who want to show off.


Most of our more important factories with long tradition didn’t survive the transition after the independence, which is a great loss. Elan still manufactures good skiïng equipment, Akrapovič’s motorcycle exhaust system is also known more widely, Pipistrel is a light aircraft manufacturer, including electric ones, but was recently purchased by an American company…

You seem not to be much affected to Slovene refrigerators.

Theoretically you could also take pride in Prosecco. It's derived from the ethnic Slovene village of Presek in what is now Italy.

I wonder whether anyone in the village Proseken in Mecklenburg https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proseken that shares this presek etymology has a clue about the connection to Prosecco.

[rothaer]

Yes. There was a proposal during the Spring of Nations for a United Slovenia.

Here is the Map of Slovene Land and Provinces from that period:

Wow, okay...

(I notice that the crazy borders at the Metlika area already existed at that time.)

[MCMXCV]

I must admit, that Innerösterreich was an unknown to me term and entity.

Indeed, Notranja Avstrija / Innerösterreich is quite a forgotten term and entity to the outside world. It embodied the (South) Slavic provinces of the core of the Habsburg monarchy — represented by the aforementioned Austria Interior and Austria Inferior / Niederösterreich, Austria Superior / Oberösterreich and Austria Anterior / Vorderösterreich (shown in the second graphic below, albeit missing the possessions in present-day Switzerland) — especially if one keeps in mind that the ethnic border used to be much more northern in the mediæval times, when these subdivisions were conceptualised. There’s a town even in East Tyrol / Osttirol that used to be named Windisch-Matrei until the year 1921.

Noteworthy also that Krain goes down into Central Istria and contains Mitterburg (Pazin, which I once visited).

That is the old border that existed for centuries — as it was also the outer border of the Holy Roman Empire with the Most Serene Republic of Venice — until Napoleon invaded the region. After his defeat, that area, with the remainder of the peninsula, became part of the Margraviate of Istria within the Austrian Littoral. Additionally, one can notice on old maps how the Inner Austrian coast northwestern of Trieste had ethnically been Slovene, while the coast that the Republic of Slovenia has today was actually ethnically Italian…

[MCMXCV]

Is Argeta Slovenian or Croatian?

https://www.mpreis.at/shop/p/argeta-...8aAt9_EALw_wcB

Our company that has invented and is producing Argeta was acquired by a Croatian company in 2010.

[MCMXCV]

But if I get you right this reference doesn't cause the small Carinthian proportion within today's Slovenia to be regarded more core Slovenian than Carniola.

It doesn’t. Nowadays, Upper Carniola (Gorenjska = Oberkrain) is considered the core. In a way, the stereotype of the whole Slovene culture, like the Bavarian is for the entirety of Germany to outsiders and in popular culture.

Even the Slovene national costume (Tracht) is that of Upper Carniola, although it’s only native to that specific region. Other regions have their own.

[MCMXCV]

You seem not to be much affected to Slovene refrigerators.

Believe me or not, I was actually intending to include Gorenje but later didn’t. Since they’ve been acquired by the Chinese Hisense, the quality of all of their products declined immensely. I’m positively surprised you even know about them.

Theoretically you could also take pride in Prosecco. It's derived from the ethnic Slovene village of Presek in what is now Italy.

I wonder whether anyone in the village Proseken in Mecklenburg https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proseken that shares this presek etymology has a clue about the connection to Prosecco.

I’m familiar with this wine — Aperol Spritz, anyone? — but had no idea it originates from this Slovene village, a stone’s throw away from the beautiful Miramare Castle! Thank you for informing me.

Maybe it’s time to raise awareness and start a petition for the twinning of these German and Italian towns with Slavic etymology!

[MCMXCV]

(I notice that the crazy borders at the Metlika area already existed at that time.)

Nice attention to details. It’s a common misconception that border is the aftermath of our separation from Yugoslavia. It’s at least around two hundred years old.

[MCMXCV]

Why Austrians like Croatians more then Slovenians eventhough slovenians are genetically and culturally less balkan more central-european/austrian shifted?

I think that’d be a question more suitable for the Austrians, don’t you think? I have no idea why and to which extent what you said is true.

You could also ask people around you in person. I’d be interested in knowing what they say.