Alfred Sauvy: Father of mass immigration?

[Joe McCarthy]

French demographer, anti-Malthusian, advocate of mass immigration in France, coiner of term 'Third World':

http://www.udel.edu/poscir/faculty/M...raladdress.htm

Near the end of World War II, the great demographer Alfred Sauvy would call for massive immigration to restore France’s demographic well-being. He advocated admission of millions of immigrants. There existed a broad consensus in government circles on the need for immigration for demographic purposes, a trait that distinguished French migration policies from those pursued elsewhere in Europe.

Now it should be understood that at the time there was no anticipation of significant immigration from Muslim countries, but a 1945 law removed ethnicity and national origin as the basis for immigrant recruitment, thus putting French immigration policy firmly in its republican tradition.

Later, during the war in Algeria, France began receiving Algerians in significant numbers:

Meanwhile, it had become easier for Algerian Muslims to travel to metropolitan France. The onset of the war of independence in 1954 increased the internal migration across the Mediterranean. What had become the French Muslim community of North African background figured importantly in the outcome of the conflict in Algeria. Many French citizens of Algerian Muslim background would opt to retain their French citizenship under the terms of the Evian Accords, which led to Algeria’s independence in 1962.

After this France began making bilateral agreements with Algeria and other Muslim countries to receive laborers. It was anticipated that they'd repatriate, but things didn't quite work out that way. One wonders if any of this would have been possible though without the advocacy of Alfred Sauvy early on.

[Joe McCarthy]

[Joe McCarthy]

What is interesting in studying French immigration history is that from the early years after the French Revolution it was a trailblazer in granting foreign settlers citizenship and basing citizenship on republican principles rather than ethnicity. This contrasted with the Second Reich, for example. France was also the first European state to begin importing immigrants due to low birthrates in the nineteenth century.

[Ouistreham]

Joe, I'm afraid you are severely misinterpreting a seriously flawed article of Mark J. Miller (I smell a neo-con rat).

French demographerFrench demographer, anti-Malthusian, advocate of mass immigration

Wrong. Sauvy insisted all his life on the essential importance of natural growth to restore a healthy demographic structure.

French demographer it should be understood that at the time there was no anticipation of significant immigration from Muslim countries

Now this is right.

Later, during the war in Algeria, France began receiving Algerians in significant numbers:

Wrong again. It started well before.

After this France began making bilateral agreements with Algeria and other Muslim countries to receive laborers. It was anticipated that they'd repatriate, but things didn't quite work out that way. One wonders if any of this would have been possible though without the advocacy of Alfred Sauvy early on.

Severely wrong. Alfred Sauvy used to say "if development cannot move to people, wa are at risk that people will move to wealth" and published among many other books one with the self-explanatory title L'Europe Submergée.

French demographerWhat is interesting in studying French immigration history is that from the early years after the French Revolution it was a trailblazer in granting foreign settlers citizenship and basing citizenship on republican principles rather than ethnicity.

Pure nonsense. French Revolution was a trailblazer only in granting the Jews of France full civic rights as soon as 1789 (which arguably wasn't perhaps the best idea ever) but introduced at the same time the jus sanguinis (confirmed in the Code Civil of 1804), whereby french citizenship could be acquired only by birth.

This was alas abolished hundred years later, in 1889 (for reasons I could expose but it would require a long explanation).

[Joe McCarthy]

Originally Posted by Ouistreham
Joe, I'm afraid you are severely misinterpreting a seriously flawed article of Mark J. Miller (I smell a neo-con rat).

Baseless ad hominem.

Wrong. Sauvy insisted all his life on the essential importance of natural growth to restore a healthy demographic structure.

Wrong? He called for the importation of millions of immigrants into France. If that isn't mass immigration advocacy, I'd hate to see what is.

Wrong again. It started well before.

The key words there are 'significant numbers'.

Severely wrong. Alfred Sauvy used to say "if development cannot move to people, wa are at risk that people will move to wealth" and published among many other books one with the self-explanatory title L'Europe Submergée.

What he said on other occasions isn't particularly relevant. His advocacy of mass immigration set a dangerous precedent and helped establish France as the trend setter in modern immigration policy, which is a status it is noted for even in literature not relating specifically to immigration. Haine's The History of France being one such example.

Pure nonsense. French Revolution was a trailblazer only in granting the Jews of France full civic rights as soon as 1789 (which arguably wasn't perhaps the best idea ever) but introduced at the same time the jus sanguinis (confirmed in the Code Civil of 1804), whereby french citizenship could be acquired only by birth.

Citizenship was not restricted to birth. What the Code Civil did was designate that when citizenship was granted at birth it was to require that the father be a French citizen, and it carried no ethnic significance. Immigrants and settlers were normally granted citizenship. We read here, for example:

http://www.iheu.org/node/377

THE CLASSICAL SITUATION IN FRANCE


FRANCE, is, by very old tradition, going back to the Roman times and to the middle ages, a country of colonisation, of immigration, of integration of populations of very different origins. In recent times, it has been a regular policy of French authorities (since the French revolution and Napoleon Bonaparte) to consider that people born in France are by definition French. It is the "right of the soil" in opposition to the "right of blood", which is closer to the German tradition, for example. The American system is close to the French one in that respect. Once an immigrant has settled in the country, he "normally" becomes a French citizen; his children are French; his grandchildren have hardly kept the memory of their origin.

[antonio]

Unfortunatelly massive inmigration and then more hideous globalization started in the worst moment of History ever, after the downfall of the most racist (and xenophobic) empire ever. Anycase, there had to be somebody to keep a cool head and a notion of Historical sense. But nobody wasnt. People standing racialist views on the past (the most) were hiding them in shame. But then it was a serious cause to forgive them. Now there isnt...besides the electoral votes from all the wrongly naturalized.