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Thread: Why do only Europeans and East Asians develop ethno states?

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    Africa was just decolonized 50-60 years ago so not enough time to form ethnic dominated states considering that their borders were mostly arbitrarily drawn by imperialists and the Middle East was under colonial mandates until the modern age as well. Nationalism is a recent phenomenon on the world stage so a lot of the world hasn’t had time to catch up. Remember that Austria Hungary and the Turks and even the soviets ruled over a massive number of ethnic groups and were broken up in the last 2 centuries and Yugoslavia as well just broke into ethnic states very recently, while Germany and Italy just united together in 19th century. This is not even mentioning the fact that the premise of the question could be questioned by mentioning that China has Tibetans and uyghurs and mongols within their borders, uk is multinational, Spain has basques and Catalans;Somalia is also an ethnic state and central Asia is dominated by ethnic states too

    It’s not really due to lack of trying in a lot of cases either. There have been efforts to have Arab nationalism which failed due to political infighting and other reasons. And take the Kurds who have been fighting for a state forever. And in Africa there are just so many ethnic groups that it can be hard to form reasonable states for each one without there being some kind of ethnic synthesis- but taking the example of South Sudan, states are forming now that better represent the composition of their populace. These things just take time- time that these post colonial states have not had: the Turkish empire broke down over hundreds of years, Yugoslavia and Soviet Union survived as multiethnic states for decades upon decades before breaking, and Austria survived as a multiethnic state for centuries. And some states, like Iran, can survive as multiethnics if their regional groups do not develop a sense of national identity(remember that nationalism is a very recent phenomenon and there can be a lot of individual variations as to why certain regions did not develop nationalism like Europeans and other regions did)
    Last edited by Zeus; 09-16-2019 at 03:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMaestro View Post
    Why, is Australia an ethnostate?
    I did not include new world countries for obvious reasons. Mexico is also not an ethno state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamastor View Post
    ''Ethnostate'' is one of the dumbest alt-right notions circulating through the internet. It doesn't exist and never existed, maybe in the fantasies of the guys idealizing the family of Jack, 6'ft tall American Football player with a six-pack, and Mary Jane, blonde american girl running through the fields, as being the archetype of US society. The fact is that this image of the 50s in USA is an idealized past, never existed.

    They always come with ''but USA was 90% huwhite'', yeah counting Arabs, Indians (from India) and Mexicans as white you can be 90% white easily (all these groups were considered white at some point in US).
    Stop clinging to the term I happen to use and ignoring my main point. And you're totally wrong about USA btw. That 1950s America existed, you just feel threatened by it.
    Last edited by Supercomputer; 09-16-2019 at 05:56 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamastor View Post
    Japan is not an ''ethnostate'', they are usually pretty open to foreigners who want to (truly) adopt Japanese culture, the thing is that most immigrants there aren't willing to do that. The thing these retards don't understand is that being ethnically homogeneous doesn't mean some country is any kind of ''ethnostate''.
    You're a moron. Japan is a country based on ethnicity. It is an ethno state. You obviously have insecurities around that term which blinds you from even seeing the difference between countries that have an ethnic core from those that don't which should be obvious to anyone with a brain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alenka View Post
    Hmmm, I wouldn't say that ethnicities which are part of a multi-ethnic country are less ethnocentric than those who have ethno states. Rather the opposite. The fact that they still preserve the continuity of their own separate ethnic identity, language, and culture kind of proves that. What they have less of is independentist nationalism, not ethnocentrism.

    As for "ethno states" of races that live up north, there are quite some that are actually rather multi-ethnic. And some who use to be, but are becoming decreasingly so, because they're not particularly ethnocentric. For example Italy, when you look at the linguistic diversity it used to have just a century or two ago, you see it used to be a lot more diverse compared to now. Genetics confirm this diversity too, so indeed a multi-ethnic case. But with the rise of nationalism, they have all assumed an Italian identity, and are gradually morphing into one. I believe France and Germany are also similar cases. Not to even mention Russia, despite ethnic Russians being the vast majority in therms of percentage, it has plenty of ethnic groups. Actually, if you look further back enough, all Slavic countries likely used to be divided into several smaller tribes.
    Maybe I didn't use the most appropriate terms, but I think my main point was still easy to understand. There is a general pattern of peoples with higher latitude more likely develop their countries around ethnicity that those closer to the equator who seem to be more satisfied with living in non ethic countries. It may be that religion is perhaps stronger in these parts of the world and it pushes out ethnocentrism? Or some other reason, perhaps even evolutionary. There are some suggestions Black people have lower in group preference than White people, and East Asians have the strongest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus View Post
    Africa was just decolonized 50-60 years ago so not enough time to form ethnic dominated states considering that their borders were mostly arbitrarily drawn by imperialists and the Middle East was under colonial mandates until the modern age as well. Nationalism is a recent phenomenon on the world stage so a lot of the world hasn’t had time to catch up. Remember that Austria Hungary and the Turks and even the soviets ruled over a massive number of ethnic groups and were broken up in the last 2 centuries and Yugoslavia as well just broke into ethnic states very recently, while Germany and Italy just united together in 19th century. This is not even mentioning the fact that the premise of the question could be questioned by mentioning that China has Tibetans and uyghurs and mongols within their borders, uk is multinational, Spain has basques and Catalans;Somalia is also an ethnic state and central Asia is dominated by ethnic states too

    It’s not really due to lack of trying in a lot of cases either. There have been efforts to have Arab nationalism which failed due to political infighting and other reasons. And take the Kurds who have been fighting for a state forever. And in Africa there are just so many ethnic groups that it can be hard to form reasonable states for each one without there being some kind of ethnic synthesis- but taking the example of South Sudan, states are forming now that better represent the composition of their populace. These things just take time- time that these post colonial states have not had: the Turkish empire broke down over hundreds of years, Yugoslavia and Soviet Union survived as multiethnic states for decades upon decades before breaking, and Austria survived as a multiethnic state for centuries. And some states, like Iran, can survive as multiethnics if their regional groups do not develop a sense of national identity(remember that nationalism is a very recent phenomenon and there can be a lot of individual variations as to why certain regions did not develop nationalism like Europeans and other regions did)
    Sorry I don't find your answer is satisfactory. All former colonies have had time and independence to carve up based on ethnicities and haven't chosen to do so. If the colonialists created an artificial country in the Balkans it would break down along ethnic lines in a matter of years after gaining independence. Yet all of these former colonies still have multiethnic countries with almost no basis in ethnicity decades after. Yes German and Italian identity developed a bit later than say England but it still developed. I think there is some other explanation no reply has yet identified.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Supercomputer View Post
    Maybe I didn't use the most appropriate terms, but I think my main point was still easy to understand. There is a general pattern of peoples with higher latitude more likely develop their countries around ethnicity that those closer to the equator.
    Because those closer to the equator are primitive paleotropical humans with a different subset of mentalities and behavioural patterns than the neolithic humans who dominate the geopolitical north who have their own subset of mentalities and behavarioul patterns and both outnumber the global cognitive elite who have their own subset of mentalities and behavarioul patterns.

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    Bangladesh is 98% Bengali, so its quite homogenous. Pretty much in the same percentage range as korea and japan.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dna8 View Post
    If God is an artist, the female form is his masterpiece.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tooting Carmen View Post
    European and East Asian countries back home have often been ethnostates (though some are undoubtedly phony, such as Belgium and Switzerland), but I agree the US and other European settler states never were, whatever the fantasies of WNs. As for East Asian countries, only Philippines and Indonesia don't really have an ethnic core to them.
    Australia was literally founded to be a White ethnostate, and that was only overturned as policy in the late 60s and 70s.








    https://www.amren.com/features/2013/...ite-australia/

    What Happened to White Australia?
    Thomas Jackson, American Renaissance, March 1, 2013

    Australia, like the United States, was founded by the British. Both countries were built by white settlers and populated by white immigrants. Both had immigration policies strongly favoring white immigration that continued until just a few decades ago. But Australia had even more racially explicit origins than the United States. It came into being as a nation dedicated not merely to racial purity but to preserving a specific ethnic heritage. The “White Australia Policy” was really a “British Australia Policy,” established by a people who, as Prime Minister Robert Menzies said, felt “British to the bootstraps.” What happened to this proud, fiercely explicit identity?

    In New Britannia, independent scholar Alan James traces what he calls “the rise and decline of Anglo-Australia.” It is a story of betrayal that almost perfectly parallels that of the United States. Beginning as early as the 1930s, intellectuals, bureaucrats, and politicians deliberately flouted the desires of the vast majority of Australians and opened the country to immigrants utterly unlike the founding stock.

    The penal colony

    Until the American Revolution, the North American colonies were a handy dumping ground for British convicts. The newly independent United States refused to accept prisoners, however, so that is why, beginning in 1787, Britain shipped convicts to Australia. The plan was also for them to be the founding population of a British colony to counter France in the South Pacific. The first governor, Arthur Phillip, accordingly set the pattern: Once an exile had served his term he was to be treated as if his record had been wiped clean.

    Britain continued to send convicts to Australia until 1868, by which time a total of 132,000 men and 25,000 women had been transported. Today’s Australians like to point out that the convicts were not degenerates–most were petty thieves; more serious criminals got the death penalty. The average age on arrival was 27, and convicts were chosen in part because they were healthy and would make good settlers. Even from the earliest days, there was a handful of volunteer settlers, and by the 1820s, one fifth of all arrivals were free immigrants.

    Britain encouraged free emigration, and in 1832 started helping pay passage to Australia. Because most of the convicts and many of the emigrants had been men, there was great demand for women, and more women than men took subsidized passage. The sex ratio evened out only in 1880.

    That century-long imbalance gave rise to what Australians call “mateship,” or male camaraderie. Men did not have women and had to depend on other men. At the time of a constitutional referendum in 1999, then-Prime Minister John Howard even tried to put a reference to “mateship” into the preamble to the constitution.

    Mr. James notes that Australian colonists considered themselves loyal Britons. He writes that the only exceptions were Irish Catholic political dissenters who were sent down after the failed revolt of 1798. They nursed their hostilities and staged the only insurrection in Australian history. In 1804, about 300 escaped convicts stole weapons and demanded a ship to sail to Ireland. About 15 were killed in what is called the Battle of Vinegar Hill, and nine ringleaders were executed. Mr. James writes that this soured English-Irish relations in Australia for some time, but that for the most part, Scots and Irish assimilated to British patriotism.

    White Australia

    The first rejection of non-white immigration goes back to the 1830s. By then, landowners had large holdings and wanted cheap labor. They petitioned to bring in Chinese coolies, but both the colonial and British governments refused to consider admitting people of “an inferior and servile description.”

    It was the gold rushes, starting in 1851, that brought the first non-whites. Chinese began coming in 1854, and by 1858 there were 40,000 in the gold fields of Victoria. White miners disliked their alien habits and complained that when Chinese were successful they sent their earnings back to China. The colonial governments of the time tried to curb Chinese immigration by taxing new arrivals and limiting the number who could arrive on a single ship, but gold was too strong a lure.

    Tensions peaked in 1857, when 700 white miners attacked a camp of 2,000 Chinese. In what is known as the riot of Buckland River, they looted the camp, burned down a temple, and killed a handful of Chinese. Other Chinese drowned in the river trying to escape. It took the police three days to get out to the campsite and restore order. Thirteen white rioters were arrested, but juries refused to convict nine of them, and the remaining four got only nine months of prison.

    In 1860, whites in the colony of New South Wales killed two more Chinese miners, and insisted on complete exclusion. They also set new words to the popular patriotic song, “Rule Britannia:”

    "Rule Britannia:
    Britannia rules the waves.
    No more Chinamen allowed
    In New South Wales."


    The colonial government found itself spending so much money protecting Chinese miners that it finally gave in and restricted Chinese immigration in 1861. In 1888 it passed a bill completely excluding Chinese.

    In 1901, what had been separate British colonies united to form the Commonwealth of Australia, and its citizens wanted the commonwealth to stay white. As the first prime minister Edmund Barton explained, “We are guarding the last part of the world in which the higher races can live and increase freely for the higher civilization.” The second prime minister, Alfred Deakin, was even more explicit: “Unity of race is absolutely essential to the unity of Australia. It is more, actually more in the last resort, than any other unity . . . .”

    Mr. James points out that this was the overwhelming view. In its very first year, the commonwealth passed a law to exclude all non-whites. Britain maintained veto power over some legislation, however, and could have overruled explicitly racial legislation. Australia therefore adopted the method pioneered by the South African colony of Natal and known as “the Natal formula.” This required prospective immigrants to take a dictation test in a European language. It could be any European language, so an English-speaking Indian could be given a dictation test in Italian, which he would certainly fail.

    Labour was the only party that opposed this law; it insisted on an undisguised racial ban. As was the case in the United States at the period, spokesmen for working people were open advocates for whites. When a commonwealth-wide Labour Party was established in 1900, the number-two plank in its platform was “Total exclusion of coloured and other undesirable races.” For Australians, non-white immigration was unthinkable.

    In 1907, Teddy Roosevelt sent “The Great White Fleet” on a round-the-world voyage to show the American flag. Australia welcomed the ships in the spirit of racial and even British solidarity. As Sydney author Joe Slater put it:

    "When they reach our sunny land we’ll extend a friendly hand,
    And we’ll treat them all as brothers taut and true,
    For when all is said and done, as a race we all are one,
    All descended from the old Red, White, and Blue."


    “Australia, the White Man’s Land,” was a piece of music published and first performed in 1910. It included such words as:

    "Sunny south of Old Britannia’s sons,
    Australia the white man’s land,
    defended by the white man’s guns.
    God bless and help us to protect our glorious land Australia."


    In 1919, Australian Prime Minister Billy Hughes attended the Paris Peace Conference. During the negotiations to draft the covenant of the League of Nations, Japanese proposed a declaration of racial equality. Hughes successfully led the opposition to what he saw as an assault on the White Australian Policy.

    Ordinary Australians continued to take race for granted, but a few “intellectuals” were beginning to low-rate their own country. Mr. James quotes a 1939 poem by Alec Derwent Hope (1907–2000):

    "Without songs, architecture, history . . .
    And her five cities, like five teeming sores
    Each drains her: a vast parasite robber-state
    Where second-hand Europeans pullulate
    Timidly on the edge of alien shores".


    This was a considerable change from poetry of an earlier time. Mr. James also quotes Mary Gilmore’s (1865-1962) Old Botany Bay, which celebrates the convict pioneers:

    "I am he
    Who paved the way,
    That you might walk
    At your ease today;
    I split the rock;
    I felled the tree,
    The nation was—
    Because of me!"


    Mr. James writes that the first official breaches in the White Australia Policy occurred after the Second World War. There had been a number of non-white refugees from Japanese aggression who had been allowed temporary residence during the war, and most went home—as they had promised—when peace came. Some insisted on staying, however, and there was a raucous debate over whether they should be forcibly deported. In the end, some 800 were allowed to stay—a clear and ominous deviation from long-standing policy.

    During the allied occupation of Japan, a number of Australian soldiers married Japanese women. The wives were let in—another deviation from policy, but one justified on the grounds that there were very few war brides. Prime Minister Robert Menzies assured the public that these exceptions did not mean a change in policy.

    By the 1950s, however, for the first time, there were organized groups calling for non-white immigration. Mr. James notes that members were Communists and church leaders—with a high proportion of Irish Catholics. In 1959, something called the Immigration Reform Group, set up mostly by academics, called for an end to the White Australia Policy.

    In 1961 came what Mr. James considers a very significant event: A man named Peter Heydon became head of the Department of Immigration. Mr. James does not explain what led to this appointment, but Heydon’s view was opposed to that of the government of the time, and he set about filling the department with people who wanted non-white immigration. Heydon was followed by Billy Snedden, who also favored non-white immigration. There had been no official change in policy, and no cabinet member would have called for such a change. This appears to have been a purely bureaucratic, almost undercover takeover of a crucial department.

    Changes were working their way through Australian society. Ominously, in 1965, the Labor Party (it switched from “Labour” in 1912) dropped any reference to “white Australia” from its platform. This was open betrayal of the principle labor had stood for ever since the mid-19th century. Perhaps coincidentally, 1965 was the same year the United States abolished its national-origins immigration quotas.

    In 1971, then-Prime Minister John Gorton explained his reasons for the switch in policy:

    "I think if we build up gradually inside Australia a proportion of people without white skins, then as that is gradually done, there will be a complete lack of consciousness of differences between the races. And if this can be done as I think it can, then that may provide the world with the first truly multi-racial society with no tension of any kind possible between any of the races within it. At any rate, this is our ideal."

    Australia obviously had no obligation to undertake an experiment of this kind, and Gorton himself acknowledged that success was not guaranteed. This wooly thinking prevailed everywhere in the West.

    By 1972, the White Australia Policy was officially dead, and by the 1980s Asian immigration was in full swing. Labor governments especially promoted it, and the unions—always closely aligned with Labor—said nothing. This was a typical stab in the back. A party that was firmly on the left in terms of supporting labor’s demands on capital was captured by leftist silliness on race—and probably many other things—that had nothing to do with working-class interests. The media fell into line without a hiccough.

    Mr. James notes that by the time of the “Blainey Affair” in 1984, there was a hard consensus against the traditional policy. Geoffrey Blainey, one of Australia’s most eminent historians, wrote cautiously about the ethnic tensions that can arise in mixed-race societies and suggested that levels of Asian immigration were too high. He was mercilessly hounded, called all the usual names, and was visibly shattered by the attacks. As Mr. James points out, this kind of public flogging has a chilling effect on anyone else who is tempted to step out of line.

    By 1991, when a report appeared on the actual costs of accommodating foreigners and non-English-speakers, it was common to say that costs do not matter at all, that civilization itself requires the repudiation of “racist” policies.

    Mr. James notes that all the pillars of Australian society—media, churches, politicians, academics—conspired to flout the will of the majority. He quotes tellingly from an admission by former prime minister Robert Hawke:

    "[T]the major parties had reached an implicit pact to keep immigration off the political agenda. . . . [T]here are no other issues to which the major parties have been prepared to act in this way . . . to advance the national interest ahead of where they believed the electorate to be."

    Journalist Gwynne Dyer approved of deception in the name of “ethnic diversification.” He said the government was right to “do good by stealth:” “Let the magic do its work, but don’t talk about it in front of the children. They’ll just get cross and spoil it all.”

    This is typical of the contempt in which elites hold the people. Displacing the founding stock with aliens is wonderful, but somehow its wonders are not easily grasped by the people being displaced. Therefore, let the policy be carried out in secret.

    The assault on Anglo-Australia

    Mr. James is proud of his British heritage, just like the Australian majority. He sees “ethnic diversification” as an open assault not just on white Australia but British Australia.

    Unlike the United States, Australia did not have to fight for independence and for generations maintained ties to Britain that verged on veneration. When the British general, Charles “Chinese” Gordon was killed in Khartoum in 1885, a British expeditionary force was formed to avenge him. No fewer than 770 volunteers sailed from Sydney to join it, and two-thirds of the city’s population is said to have seen them off. Sixteen thousand Australian volunteers fought for the British in the Boer War and other wars in Southern Africa. Australian volunteers wanted to help put down the Boxer Rebellion but arrived too late to take part. An astonishing 60,000 men—all volunteers—died for Britain in the First World War. Mr. James sees these sacrifices as entirely natural for men who believed they were fighting for their kinfolk and for the empire.

    Robert Menzies—“British to the bootstraps”—visited Britain for the first time in 1935. He wrote touchingly of what “move[s] the soul of those who go ‘home’ to a land they have never seen . . . .”

    The 1930s saw a lull in immigration by Britons, who were outnumbered by continental Europeans. Europeans were white, but they were not British, and in 1936 Australia resumed subsidized passage from Britain. A few barriers were also set up to non-British European immigration. Mr. James notes that in 1939, Europeans were required to submit photographs with their visa applications. One purpose was to weed people who looked Jewish, on the assumption that anti-Semitism would never take root in Australia if there were no Jews.

    The Second World War was an important turning point in relations with Britain. Australia was shocked by the British surrender of Singapore, which put 16,000 Australian prisoners into the hands of the Japanese. Churchill also insisted on sending Australian troops to Europe rather than let them stay to fight Japan. Instead of serving under British command as they always had, Australians fought under American officers. The Australian Broadcasting Corporation, which had always played “The British Grenadiers” before new broadcasts, switched to “Advance, Australia Fair” in 1942.

    Old ties were not easily broken, however, and free and assisted passage from Britain continued after the war. From 1947 to 1973, more than one million new British settlers arrived to the slogan of “Bring out a Brit.” The British stopped subsidizing fares in 1972, but the Australians kept paying until 1981. When Australian citizenship was introduced in 1948, British immigrants could apply after only one year of residence, as opposed to longer periods for others. British immigrants also had preferential admission into the military.

    Mr. James looks back with nostalgia on Anglo-Australia. He notes that until the 1970s, school children in the state of Victoria saluted the Australian flag every day, and listened to “God Save the Queen.” Until the 1960s, cinema played “God Save the Queen” before the movie—and everyone rose. The queen’s portrait was in government buildings, scouting halls, schools, and council chambers, but these began to disappear in the 1970s.

    Some shifts were voluntary. A 1977, referendum changed the national anthem to “Advance, Australia Fair.” However, despite near-monolithic media support for a republic, voters—most recently in 1999—choose to remain subjects of the Queen.

    Still, Mr. James notes that on the Left, the switch to a multi-culti Australia has been accompanied by rituals of contempt for Britain. The uncomplimentary Australian word for the Brits is “poms,” as in “whingeing [whining] poms” and “pommy bastards.” Despite the typically lefty prohibition against “negative stereotypes,” the British, and white Australians by extension, are the only people one may savage with impunity. Mr. James cites a headline to a story about litter left on a tourist beach: “Filthy Poms.” He notes that there are plenty of other tourists on the beach, but would a newspaper dare write about “Filthy Japs”?

    Insulting the British is a way to spit on the White Australia Policy. If anyone shows nostalgia for pre-multi-culti Australia, it is fashionable to retort that in those “meat and three veg” days Australians didn’t even know how to eat, and that turning their backs on Britain was the best thing Australia ever did.

    Why did it happen?

    Mr. James has given us an eminently readable account of a once-sturdy people running itself onto the rocks. What it lacks, though, is what most such accounts lack: a convincing explanation for why Anglo-Australia conceived a hatred for itself and decided to ring its own death knell.

    This is not entirely Mr. James’s fault. The multi-culturalists have often acted in secret, and conniving media never demand an explanation that goes beyond slogans about diversity and silly jabber about ethnic food. Every nation of the British diaspora has the same miserable record: Canada, the United States, and New Zealand all forsook their roots. None consulted its people or explained why the founding stock was suddenly not good enough.

    It is sad to read such convincing confirmation that our own disease so badly infects our Australian cousins, but it is gratifying to know that a few are still healthy, and are determined to save their country.
    Spoiler!

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    Ethno-nationalism is one of the biggest causes of colectivism, yet it is a pretty non-sensical concept.
    To sacrifice your own life for the government? Seriously? Country is government. Government is mafia. It have no legitimacy to exists, because it only is sustained by theft, i've not signed any deal about It.
    Fortunately, Ancap ideas are getting more popular.

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