Northern Ireland violence drives out immigrant families

[Bridie]

Ulster loyalists may be the most 'racist' Western demographic. That thread I had on the most racist country indicated as such. I'm unsure how they manage it, but they seem somewhat insulated from the PC on the other island.

I don't think they're insulated, they just don't give a shit. To be honest, the Northern Irish, whether Catholic or Protestant, are some of the toughest, boldest, most unapologetic people I've ever met/seen in my life. They've had to be.

I'm sorry if you don't like what I'm saying, Os, but this has been my observation (when in Northern Ireland) as well as being a view shaped by many a conversation with average Northern Irish people. Not fanatics, for the most part, just ordinary people. Granted, I know I don't know the full story, by far, but I've come to realise that there are great discrepancies between what the UK media reports of the goings on in Northern Ireland and the truth of it.

I've never been in Northern Ireland when there has been a republican attack on Protestants, but there have been more than a few loyalist attacks on Catholics, and guess what? They weren't reported by the UK media to my knowledge (and I was looking out for it). One of the attacks was a fire bombing of a Catholic Primary school just up the road from where I was staying at the time. (Thankfully the attack took place at night when the school was abandoned.) And it was during the Marching Season.... so one would have expected that if there were going to be any terrorist attacks at that time, most of them would have been undertaken by republicans... yet there were none.

Orange walks in Northern Ireland should be banned.

[Peasant]

Orange walks in Northern Ireland should be banned.

And Republican ones to then?

[Bridie]

And Republican ones to then?

No. (As long as they're peaceful.) Northern Ireland is the ancestral homeland of the Republicans and the people they care for (ie, the Irish).

If the Protestant portion of the population of Northern Ireland wish to remain there, they should have respect for the native peoples and try to come to some kind of reconciliation. It is the former who bear the burden of historical misjustice.

I have the same opinion of Australians... those of British descent or aboriginal. I would not support demonstrations in Australia that disrespect the native peoples and mock the pain that they have endured over the last 200 or so years; but should the aboriginals wish to deomonstrate in defiance of British colonisation and domination, I think it should be supported... it would be understandable afterall and perhaps could provide a catalist for reconciliation. The native peoples have a right to have their voices heard. It is the responsibility of Australians of British descent to overcome past wrongs and set a right path for the future.

[Aces High]

Orange walks in Northern Ireland should be banned.

Strange how you never advocate the banning of gay pride marches through European cities but favour the banning of Orange order marches.....by people who hold a fearsome loyalty to the crown and the UK,people who love their country and value honour and comradeship above al and want a parade to celebrate their traditions.
These people should be respected for holding out and fighting off all comers in this age of multi racial pc bullshit.

Shows where your loyalties lie.

[Bridie]

Strange how you never advocate the banning of gay pride marches through European cities

If the discussion had been about homosexuality and the subject of gay rights demonstrations came to mind, I certainly would advocate banning them. Don't why you would think that I wouldn't.

but favour the banning of Orange order marches.....by people who hold a fearsome loyalty to the crown and the UK,people who love their country and value honour and comradeship above al and want a parade to celebrate their traditions.
These people should be respected for holding out and fighting off all comers in this age of multi racial pc bullshit.

Shows where your loyalties lie.

The only reason they show such loyalty to the Crown is because they don't want to lose their position in Northern Ireland. Selfish reasons. "Honour" is the last word that comes to mind when I think of these people. "Honour" includes confronting and taking responsibility for one's history... not hiding behind a veil of false self-righteousness and lies. They may value comradeship, that is fine, but as colonials they have a responsibility to reconcile their past with their present and the future. Its not something I expect you to understand.

If they really feel such a loyalty and undying love for Britain then they should go back home, instead of continually supporting tensions and conflicts within the UK borders (which only end up costing the UK tax payers and damage the UK's international reputation further anyway!). In reality, they are doing no favours to Britain, only to themselves (and not even then really, if you look at it realistically).

Where my loyalties lay? Well, that's a complicated issue and one for a different thread.

[Murphy]

A majority in Ulster (all 9 counties) voted for Nationalist politicians actually. And this was before every Tom, Dick and Harry had a vote. Ulster returned 17 Home Rule members of parliament compared to the Unionist 16. Carson based his politics on the very fact that they were a minority. I'd ask you if "dictatorship of the majority" rung any bells but clearly it wouldn't.

Hardly,the DUP came out on top.

In my pride and arrogance I made a mistake. It was indeed the Unionists who had the slight majority over the Home Rulers in Ulster in the General Election.

It appears I was wrong again. Wrong about being wrong. Parnell's Irish National League did return 17 Home Rulers to parliament compared to the 16 Unionist in Ulster in the 1885 election.

[Murphy]

Obviously, though, your comparison is a pile of wank.

Actually, this makes it more pertinent. The residents of Moss Side are culturally, ethnically and historically different from the rest of Manchester's population no? And if they voted differently to the majority of Manchester, then partition of Moss Side is the correct answer to the situation.

Don't get too wound up Os. I am using British reasoning here!

[Murphy]

by people who hold a fearsome loyalty to the crown and the UK, people who love their country

No they do not. They are loyal to none but themselves. The British state and Crown is simply convenient for them to maintain their ascendancy in Ireland. How loyal were yer Loyalists when Carson was arming them and parading them with his fellow Unionists threatening civil war against the Crown?

Again you are demonstrating your ignorance of Irish history. I do not blame you for this. You are British and in fact you are simply showing why British government in Ireland has never and will never work.

and value honour and comradeship above al

Is that why Loyalist paramilitary groups have been known to feed intelligence about their "comrades" to the IRA?

If you had ever served in Northern Ireland you would know that the Loyalist terror squads are simply that. Terror squads squabbling over drug patches. Loyalists will kill one another if they walk into the wrong pub.

and want a parade to celebrate their traditions.

You've obviously never been to an Orange march either. They are about taunting Catholics and getting drunk. Nothing else.

[Óttar]

Orange walks in Northern Ireland should be banned.

Certainly through Catholic districts in any event.

[007]

What the hell do you mean "back over"? I think you got the wrong people that should fuck off back to where they came from if they don't like the fact that Tuaisceart Éireann is rightfully part of Ireland.

Why is it "rightfully part of Ireland"?