Split: Catholicism, suicide etc.

[Murphy]

Not entirely, but I do judge it by its fruits.

Best we don't debate it. We're in the presence of pagans .

[Arbonit]

Though Purgatory is not supposedly a pleasant place, it's been described as having several levels too. And yes, there is evidence of people who have died appearing to others and requesting prayers and describing their torture.

Little bit scary!

[The Lawspeaker]

Best we don't debate it. We're in the presence of pagans .

This pagan wants to know more. Go on, I am listening.

[Murphy]

This pagan wants to know more. Go on, I am listening.

It's an internal matter, it would be of no interest to you.

[The Lawspeaker]

It's an internal matter, it would be of no interest to you.

Very well. I actually found it to be very interesting and that's why I was eavesdropping.
Now you blew your chance to play missionary, mate

[Murphy]

Very well. I actually found it to be very interesting and that's why I was eavesdropping.
Now you blew your chance to play missionary, mate

It's not really missionary. Satan's simply deceiving people out in Croatia is all.

[Arbonit]

We are here to discuss, what if would be in our interest?

[Trog]

Aren't there any Croatians here in this forum? But anyway, Murphy and I differ on this matter. Basically it's a place in Croatia that draws millions of people from around the world every year because the Blessed Virgin is reported to be appearing there and, well, Murphy, my brother has been TEN times and I've met many conversions and people whose lives have changed because of it.

[The Lawspeaker]

For the other pagans amongst us: Međugorje is a little village in the Croatian-speaking part of Bosnia where since 1980 apparitions of the Holy Virgin are reported to have been seen by six Catholics and the place has become an unofficial pilgrimage site. The Catholic Church has so far not recognised the miracle but in March 2010, the Holy See announced that the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith was forming an investigative commission, composed of bishops, theologians, and other experts, under the leadership of Cardinal Camillo Ruini, the Pope's former Vicar General for the Diocese of Rome.

So this may mean indeed for Catholics that Murphy is correct in his assumption that Satan is pulling people's legs. I suppose that if you are a good Christian you stay away from the place.

[Murphy]

I wont even go into what the actual messages say or that one visionary stated, after flinching when in a "trance" after someone feigned a strike against them, that she flinched because the Child Jesus was about to fall from His Mother's arms.

by Don Ante Laburic, Chancellor of the Diocese of Mostar (May 16, 1997)

Published by the Catholic Information Agency, Zagreb: June 22, 1997

On May 14th, three Bishops from Uganda came to visit Medjugorje and from there went to visit Bishop Ratko Peric of Mostar (their former classmate from Rome) in order to inquire on the local Church's position on the so-called events of Medjugorje. The undersigned was also present.

The Bishop gave his former classmates some documents, which clearly show that from 1981 to 1991, three qualified Commissions in the service of the local Bishop and the Bishop's Conference have investigated the events. Ten years ago, in 1987, Bishop Pavoa Zanic, formally and officially declared that, in the parish of Medjugorje, the Madonna had not appeared to anyone. In 1991, the Bishops' Conference did not only declare that the apparitions were not authentic, but also stressed that: "It is impossible to confirm that the events involve supernatural apparitions or revelations at all." From 1981 onward, "messages of peace" have been sent out to the world from Medjugorje. Yet in our local Church these messages include the following "fruits":

—The Administration of the Franciscan Province of Herzegovina, which was punished in 1976, has from 1982, been given the further penalty of being at the level of "ad instar," due to its unwillingness to implement the decisions of the Holy See regarding pastoral services in some of the parishes of the Diocese of Mostar-Duvno.

—Many churches have been built by the Franciscans through the help of the faithful and the benefactors, which they blessed themselves, without even informing the local Bishop, which goes against Canon Law and the charism of St. Francis. A church in the parish, Ljuti Dolac, was blessed in this way on April 23rd of this year. In Medjugorje itself, many ecclesiastic buildings have been erected without any permission from proper Church authorities.

—More than ten Franciscan priests do not have canonical faculties to hear confessions in the Diocese of Herzegovina. Some due to their own fault, while others, due to the fault of their Religious community which is not fulfilling the Papal Decree.

—More than forty Franciscans have not received the necessary faculties to work pastorally in Herzegovina, yet they don't even bother with the decisions of the legal Church authorities. Some of them are currently in Medjugorje.

—Many Religious communities are living and working in the parish of Medjugorje without the permission of Church authorities, such as: "Beatitudes," "Kralijice, mira, potpuno tvoji," "Cenacolo," "Oasi di pace," and "Franjevke pomocnice svecnika." Hence, Medjugorje has become a place of Religious disorder, disobedience and anti-ecclesiastical activity.

—Last year, some "Catholic faithful," with the knowledge of the Franciscans, built a brick wall over the entrance doors of the church in Capljina and the Cathedral's affiliated church in Miljkovici. Two Franciscans who are without canonical faculties for the parish of Capljina, are currently working in the enclosed church. Everything they are doing is unlawful and the marriages performed there are invalid!

—Some of the Franciscans in Mostar are ignoring the legally-established Cathedral church and the other four diocesan parishes in Mostar dedicated to the four evangelists, while they continue to organize religious services with the people on their own, against the specific decisions of the Holy See and the Head of the Franciscan Order.

—The Provincial "ad-instar" has, on many occasions, warned his brothers in writing, that serious measures of the Franciscans' General Administration are being considered for the entire Province due to their disobedience.

—In Medjugorje, the periodical "Glad mira" and "Press Bulletin" are published without the necessary permission from Church authorities. These same periodicals proclaim the "authenticity of the apparitions" and speak of the "shrine"—even through no responsible Church statement has ever claimed "authenticity" nor proclaimed any "shrine."

—The counter-Church organization "Mir j dobro" (Pax et Bonum) was allowed to borrow the shield and motto of the Franciscans, who have not distanced themselves from their group's illegal activities, even when this was asked of them.

Hence, these are some of the "fruits" of those who are using Medjugorje to "sell shady peace" to the world, and who have hardened themselves in their disobedience towards the Holy See and the Franciscan charism.

SOURCE