Putin: Russia-Belarus Merger 'Possible' And 'Desirable'

[Max]

Unite with Russia or suffer to death? no other options available?



You mean that former part of Germany which was transformed from a baltic Riviera into Europe's most polluted black hole in a matter of decades?

First it was like...


Then in the same place...


Mama Russia. Making eastern Europe look like a giant slum since 1917.

Belarus is a just a region of Russia that has more of an identity than others. Should Karelia also become it's own nation? Or Omsk ? Or Irkutsk?

Well it's obvious that you have never seen the city yourself. It's a nice city and people are happy to live there. It's definitely not a slum and has it's own unique charm.

[Zephyr]

I don't want to offend you, Maksim, but what's beautiful in "Kaliningrad" was built by germans and germanized baltic prussians, which were expelled 60 years ago.

The level of pollution in "Kaliningrad" is renouned and the ugly soviet architecture as well.

As for Belarus vs Irkutsk... I don't think Irkutsk has the historical importance of Belarus, they don't have a great civilizational history to tell about. Karelians had... but it's mostly vanished. How many Karelians still remember their identity?

Significant enclaves of Karelians exist in the Tver oblast of Russia, resettled after Russia's defeat in 1617 against Sweden — in order to escape the peril of forced conversion to Lutheranism in Swedish Karelia and because the Russians promised tax deductions the Orthodox Karelians mass migrated there. Olonets (Aunus) is the only city in Russia where the Karelians form a majority (60% of the population).

Karelians have been declining in numbers in modern times significantly due to a number of factors. These include the low birthrates (characteristic of the region in general) and especially Russification, due to the predominance of Russian language and culture. In 1926, according to the census, Karelians only counted for 37.4% of the population in the Soviet Karelian Republic (which at that time did not yet include territories that would later be taken from Finland and added, most of which had mostly Karelian inhabitants), or 0.1 million Karelians. Russians, meanwhile, numbered 153,967 in Karelia, or 57.2% of the population. By 2002, there were only 65651 Karelians in the Republic of Karelia (65.1% of the number in 1926, including the Karelian regions taken from Finland which were not counted in 1926), and Karelians made up only 9.2% of the population in their homeland. Russians, meanwhile, were 76.6% of the population in Karelia. This trend continues to this day, and may cause the disappearance of Karelians as a distinct group.

It will probably be the fate of Belarusians as well.

[Max]

I don't want to offend you, Maksim, but what's beautiful in "Kaliningrad" was built by germans and germanized baltic prussians, which were expelled 60 years ago.

The level of pollution in "Kaliningrad" is renouned and the ugly soviet architecture as well.

As for Belarus vs Irkutsk... I don't think Irkutsk has the historical importance of Belarus, they don't have a great civilizational history to tell about. Karelians had... but it's mostly vanished. How many Karelians still remember their identity?

Significant enclaves of Karelians exist in the Tver oblast of Russia, resettled after Russia's defeat in 1617 against Sweden — in order to escape the peril of forced conversion to Lutheranism in Swedish Karelia and because the Russians promised tax deductions the Orthodox Karelians mass migrated there. Olonets (Aunus) is the only city in Russia where the Karelians form a majority (60% of the population).

Karelians have been declining in numbers in modern times significantly due to a number of factors. These include the low birthrates (characteristic of the region in general) and especially Russification, due to the predominance of Russian language and culture. In 1926, according to the census, Karelians only counted for 37.4% of the population in the Soviet Karelian Republic (which at that time did not yet include territories that would later be taken from Finland and added, most of which had mostly Karelian inhabitants), or 0.1 million Karelians. Russians, meanwhile, numbered 153,967 in Karelia, or 57.2% of the population. By 2002, there were only 65651 Karelians in the Republic of Karelia (65.1% of the number in 1926, including the Karelian regions taken from Finland which were not counted in 1926), and Karelians made up only 9.2% of the population in their homeland. Russians, meanwhile, were 76.6% of the population in Karelia. This trend continues to this day, and may cause the disappearance of Karelians as a distinct group.

It will probably be the fate of Belarusians as well.

Spoken by someone who knows nothing about the Belarusian people. They aren't a "distinct" group. They are Russian speaking Slavs who's culture is by far closest to Russians. Alexander Lukashenko is just creating friction between the two countries with his bullshit policies. They are our people and I don't want to see them suffer.

[W. R.]

Spoken by someone who knows nothing about the Belarusian people. They aren't a "distinct" group. They are Russian speaking Slavs who's culture is by far closest to Russians.

I know a bit about the Belarusian people.

The Belarusian people is comparatively young: younger than Lithuanians and Poles, for example. Belarusians' main ancestors were northern Ruthenians, inhabitants of the Great Duchy of Lithuania. The "divorce" between northern and southern Ruthenians (now Belarusians and Ukrainians) took many centuries, one can argue that it was started in 1569, when the land that is know today as "Ukraine" was annexed by Poland, although the linguistic border between Belarusian and Ukrainian dialects must be significantly older.

The Ukrainians are our closest bruthaz, not Russians.

I think I even know why the Russification was so successful in the XIX century: the elites were heavily Polonized by that time, and the imperial policies managed to deepen the social alienation between the elites and the peasantry by making it not only social but also religious (see liquidation of the Uniate church) at the same time proposing an identity of triune Russian nation.

Having no elites that can be considered "national" makes any ethic group an easy target for any experiments with their identity.

The Russian Empire and then the USSR had two centuries for such experiments.

So it goes...

[European blood]

I liked Belarus Eurovision song.

It was very European and patriotic unlike other songs.

[YOUTUBE]Asz9f-9SxiE[/YOUTUBE]

[Max]

I know a bit about the Belarusian people.

The Belarusian people are comparatively young: younger than Lithuanians and Poles, for example. Their main ancestors were northern Ruthenians, inhabitants of the Great Duchy of Lithuania. The "divorce" between northern and southern Ruthenians (now Belarusians and Ukrainians) took many centuries, one can argue that it was started in 1569, when the land that is know today as "Ukraine" was annexed by Poland, although the linguistic border between Belarusian and Ukrainian dialects must be significantly older.

The Ukrainians are our closest bruthaz, not Russians.

I think I even know why the Russification was so successful in the XIX century: the elites were heavily Polonized by that time, and the imperial policies managed to deepen the social alienation between the elites and the peasantry by making it not only social but also religious (see liquidation of the Uniate church) at the same time proposing an identity of triune Russian nation.

Having no elites that can be considered "national" makes any ethic group an easy target for any experiments with their identity.

The Russian Empire and then the USSR had two centuries for such experiments.

So it goes...

So what part of your unique identity do you think you will loose if you are annexed ? You and Ukraine have had 20 years to create a unique identity and I don't see anything but the same old Ruskies. If you want to split hairs between the 3 groups go ahead but don't pretend that the Belarusian people still don't look East for leadership.

В Россию надо верить...

[W. R.]

So what part of your unique identity do you think you will loose if you are annexed ?

We have already almost lost it. There are few peoples in Europe as ignorant about their own history as Belarusians are. And the Belarusian language is nearly dead (there is still some hope left, though). In the annexed Belarus it will be dead for sure.

You and Ukraine have had 20 years to create a unique identity and I don't see anything but the same old Ruskies.

Ł does everything to prevent it actually.

Ukrainians are far more successful: just look at their president: former Russian speaking chav, when I first heard Yanukovych speaking Ukrainian, I was all like "awww...". He rarely speaks Russian now.

but don't pretend that the Belarusian people still don't look East for leadership.

Lol?

В Россию надо верить...

Беларусам я радзіўся,
Беларусам буду жыць,
Беларускую зямельку,
Буду шчыра я любіць...

[W. R.]

I liked Belarus Eurovision song.

It was very European and patriotic unlike other songs.

I don't like patriotism. I'm more into good old nationalism. Soviets also encouraged "Soviet patriotism", you see. Łukašenka wouldn't mind everyone to be a patriot of his modified BSSR either.

[Max]

We have already almost lost it. There are few peoples in Europe as ignorant about their own history as Belarusians are. And the Belarusian language is nearly dead (there is still some hope left, though). In the annexed Belarus it will be dead for sure.Ł does everything to prevent it actually.

Ukrainians are far more successful: just look at their president: former Russian speaking chav, when I first heard Yanukovych speaking Ukrainian, I was all like "awww...". He rarely speaks Russian now.Lol?Беларусам я радзіўся,
Беларусам буду жыць,
Беларускую зямельку,
Буду шчыра я любіць...

You measure success of a country by what language the president speaks? It's a similar Slavic language ffs... I could care less if I had to speak Belarusian or Ukranian. It's like arguing which one should I have Vanilla or French Vanilla?

[W. R.]

You measure success of a country by what language the president speaks?

I was referring to the identity question, not to successes of countries in general.

Łukašenka admitted once that to be able to speak Belarusian he had to "recall" it by reading books, etc. While Yanukovych gets Ukrainized immediately after becoming a president - the main difference between Ukraine and Belarus.