Do Finns look like Swedes/Norwegians/Danes to you, or not?

[Östsvensk]

As for Öst's quiz, the only one I'm one of is that #5 is Finnish. All the others could be either way -- even the guy standing in front of a public info board in southern Sweden.

Number #5 is actually Swedish (or has at least a fully Swedish name and lives in Sweden).

[Pallantides]

And 16.

The guy looks a bit like Jarmo Mäkinen

[Bonita]

If that is the case (you probably know more than me about the subject), then it is strange how the Swedes could leave such a small genetic mark on the Finnish gene pool.

I thought your intention was to prove that Finns and Swedes look basically the same. Swedes leaving a small genetic mark on Finns would be a bad setback to your thesis.

As far as I know, there is close to zero Scandinavian I1-markers among the Finns.

Actually I1 is the second most common Y-haplo group in Finland.

Look, darling.
90% of Finns are not annoyed that you, Riippu and I live in Finland or that our ancestors have lived here for centuries, but 90% are probably annoyed by SFP politics, Svekomania and Svedophilia pursued by a small but annoying group which poisons relations over the language groups.

Sweet of you to include me in the same group as you and Riippu but you two are not just 50% Finland-Swedes, you're also 50 % Finns. You have a much bigger right to live in Finland than I have.

I wonder how much first hand experience some of you have with Finns and Scandinavians in general to claim there is such extreme differences between us... or if it's just based on anthro and race board myths?

My experience with

Finns: Have been living in the country for more than 20 years.

Swedes: Have been working in Sweden one summer and I'm there on holidays at least once a year.

Other Scandinavians: Only for a couple of holiday weeks in Norway and Denmark.

[Ibericus]

Yes, they look different. But pigmentation wise they are similar.

[Östsvensk]

I thought your intention was to prove that Finns and Swedes look basically the same. Swedes leaving a small genetic mark on Finns would be a bad setback to your thesis.

Actually, that was not my intention. And I thought this thread was about Scandinavians and Finns, not the Swedes and Finns alone. I was pointing out that there is a difference, but that the difference is of the rather small variety. Some phenotypes are stereotypical for each country, but no country has a monopoly for a phenotype. They are just found more often in certain regions, and thus each labelled on one of the peoples respectively.

I don't look like my neighbour.

Actually I1 is the second most common Y-haplo group in Finland.

Scandinavian I1-markers. Finnish I1 is often not Scandinavian (Norse/Ultra-Norse), but in most cases the so called Bothnian claude. A Finn carrying I1-Bothnia is a Swedish-descendant?

[Bonita]

Actually, that was not my intention.

Well, you had me fooled.

And I thought this thread was about Scandinavians and Finns, not the Swedes and Finns alone. I was pointing out that there is a difference, but that the difference is of the rather small variety.

The reason I'm talking about Swedes instead of Scandinavians is that I have knowledge about how the Swedes look. I don't know enough about the other Scandinavians to see any differences between them and Swedes. I can only detect a difference between Swedes/Other Scandinavians and Finns.

Scandinavian I1-markers. Finnish I1 is often not Scandinavian (Norse/Ultra-Norse), but in most cases the so called Bothnian claude. A Finn carrying I1-Bothnia is a Swedish-descendant?

This a a quote from http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...ection=results

Bothnian or L22-N-Finn has it's peak gradient in Finland.

Here is what Ken Nordtvedt said on this subject: “I1d-Bothnian needs the unusual 10 at DYS439, usually a 14-14 at DYS385, 23 at DYS390, 15 at DYS464d, and the clashing 9,13 at DYS511 and 462”


Why Ken Nordtvedt has used the name Bothnian? “

I am having a complaint that I should not use the word Bothnia to describe this variety. I had called it Finn, but there are enough examples also being found in Sweden I thought it appropriate to name it after the Gulf of Bothnia which is between these two places. The I1d in Finland in any event probably got there from Sweden in both historic and ancient times.”

[Östsvensk]

The reason I'm talking about Swedes instead of Scandinavians is that I have knowledge about how the Swedes look. I don't know enough about the other Scandinavians to see any differences between them and Swedes. I can only detect a difference between Swedes/Other Scandinavians and Finns.

Ok, then. I actually don't think that the Swedes and Danes look that very similar to each other (and I'm not alone about making that observation either). Danes are more "robust", for instance.

This a a quote from http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...ection=results

Well, all I1 formed in South Sweden or Denmark. Nowadays, there are different claudes of it. Germans and Dutch people carry the AngloSaxon, for instance. Saying that a population carrying I1 are all Swedes would be like saying that a population with R1a or R1b is "Central Asian"...

http://dgmweb.net/DNA/Corbin/CorbinD...ults-HgI1.html
Update: We now have a SNP, L22, that appears to separate the AngloSaxon varieties of I1 from the Norse varieties (now I1d), and another SNP, P109, that divides I1b (now I1d1). Although our Norse members have not tested either SNP, I'm assuming their result will be L22+, which will make them I1d, if not P109+, which would make them I1d1.

Here are (some of) the differences:

http://www.fidna.info/ydata1/y-demes.htm

I1 Anglo-Saxon 12-marker (Netherlands, NW Germany,Denmark)

I1 Norse 12-marker (Denmark, Norway, Sweden)

I1 Ultra-Norse Type 1 12-marker (Norway)

I1 Norse-Bothnia Finland 12-marker (I1a-N-Häme)

I1 Norse-Bothnia Finland 12-marker group2

As you can see, the Finns have their own I1, just like the Dutch and the Germans have their own. "I1 Norse 12-marker" and "I1 Ultra-Norse Type 1 12-marker" are not found in Finland to significant extents, and I believe we could therefore draw the conclusion that recent/modern Swedish ancestry among the Finns is nothing but negligible.

[AntonyCapolongo]

They look like Jackie Chan

[Rattfink]

Ok, then. I actually don't think that the Swedes and Danes look that very similar to each other (and I'm not alone about making that observation either). Danes are more "robust", for instance.

Magtens Korridorer

[Bonita]

As you can see, the Finns have their own I1, just like the Dutch and the Germans have their own. "I1 Norse 12-marker" and "I1 Ultra-Norse Type 1 12-marker" are not found in Finland to significant extents, and I believe we could therefore draw the conclusion that recent/modern Swedish ancestry among the Finns is nothing but negligible.

Well, at least that explains my thesis why the Finns and Swedes look so different from each other.

Do you know if the Finland-Swedish I1 carriers also are included in the "Finn group"? I can't get those links to work.