How could anyone say the Irish weren't White?

[Richmondbread]

The Irish seem more White to me than the Germans do. Germans might have had Oriental admixture. You can see it in some of the fish lips. But Irish look pure White to me. Whiter than the day. Was this some kind of propaganda? I know they weren't liked when they came across to get jobs in America. Maybe the worst of the Irish came to the states at one particular time, and it lead people to believe that they couldn't be White because of such primitive behavior. I'm curious, though where this idea originated.

[Teutone]

Just stop Richmond

[brennus dux gallorum]

Most of Europeans weren't considered "white" in America back then

[Marmara]

Because they were uncultivated Catholics.

[sean]

It's simple. The English hated the Irish, and Americans at the time were mostly of English descent. The Irish were seen as peasant folk, they were Catholic (Spain and France were political threats and the British were always concerned that Ireland was a kind of backdoor threat in the great power struggles), they would work for lower wages, thus they brought wages down and/or stole jobs, they immigrated in such numbers that they basically took over entire neighbourhoods (when the potato famine hit and a million of the poorest, most wretched Irishmen swarmed into the country on a massive scale, there was some pushback from the locals), even cities (Maryland, for example, was initially a catholic haven, or the fact that the initial wave of indentured and slave labour came from a nominally catholic Ireland, or French Canada), all voted for one as an ethnic block, etc. At one point NYC jails were 90% Irish (hence the term paddy wagon sent out to round them up to keep the streets safe for decent people). These attributes were seen as something civilised Anglos wouldn't do. That's why there were Irish need not apply signs in the US through the 1930s.

The Irish seem more White to me than the Germans do. Germans might have had Oriental admixture. You can see it in some of the fish lips. But Irish look pure White to me. Whiter than the day.

Charles Kingsley, author of The Water-Babies, wrote in a letter in 1861 about a visit to Ireland:

"But I am haunted by the human chimpanzees I saw along that hundred miles of horrible country.... But to see white chimpanzees is dreadful; if they were black, one would not feel it so much, but their skins, except where tanned by exposure, are as white as ours."

[Teutone]

It's simple. The English hated the Irish, and Americans at the time were mostly of English descent. The Irish were seen as peasant folk, they were Catholic (Spain and France were political threats and the British were always concerned that Ireland was a kind of backdoor threat in the great power struggles), they would work for lower wages, thus they brought wages down and/or stole jobs, they immigrated in such numbers that they basically took over entire neighbourhoods (when the potato famine hit and a million of the poorest, most wretched Irishmen swarmed into the country on a massive scale, there was some pushback from the locals), even cities (Maryland, for example, was initially a catholic haven, or the fact that the initial wave of indentured and slave labour came from a nominally catholic Ireland, or French Canada), all voted for one as an ethnic block, etc. At one point NYC jails were 90% Irish (hence the term paddy wagon sent out to round them up to keep the streets safe for decent people). These attributes were seen as something civilised Anglos wouldn't do. That's why there were Irish need not apply signs in the US through the 1930s.

Good explanation.

What about the Germans? Half of us were/are catholics.

[TheMaestro]

Whiteness starts in Pubs, where ginger beards are born.

[Smeagol]

Most of Europeans weren't considered "white" in America back then

Modern day myth. If that was the case, they wouldn't have been able to become naturalized citizens and would likely have been subject to anti-miscegenation laws.

[Westbrook]

My grandparents immigrated right after WW2 and supposedly they pretended to be Swiss when they first got here. I think that was just related to the world wars until the Soviets became the new big enemies.

Good explanation.

What about the Germans? Half of us were/are catholics.

[sean]

What about the Germans? Half of us were/are catholics.

For the first two centuries of America, there was Anglo-Saxon supremecy. Anyone from Europe was looked down upon, especially if they were Catholic. Germans were hated because they were alcoholics like the Irish, and unlike the Irish they didn't speak the language. Also a large portion of Germans were catholic (catholic Irish, Germans, and Poles heavily intermarried solely because they were catholic). Today, Catholic Germans outperform their Protestant versions.