Prussia back on the map?

[Johnston]

It depends on whether Germany would pose a threat to it's neighbours. If so.. restore East and West Germany. East Germany's capital in Berlin. West Germany's in Bonn but add the lost territories (including Prussia) to East Germany and the Sudetenland and Elsass-Lothringen to West Germany.

If not: one unified Germany (and if the Austrians would want it - including Austria) with it's capital in Berlin. The Netherlands (incl. Belgium), Luxembourg, Liechtenstein and Switzerland would probably not join Germany as mainly the Dutch/Belgians, Luxembourgers and Swiss value their independence a lot.

And when it comes to the Franconian stuff. Dutch is Low Franconian. Dutch are Franks, Saxons and Frisians.

Interesting nuances. You seem to place much value on hemispherical view of Continental Germania: N/S/E/W. If these conditions are observed, then there really is no point, because that is the status quo, save for the disappearance of Prussia in present conditions. Critics of the Germanic Prussia fail to note that at least the name would survive into posterity, even if it is not Baltic the way Lithuania and Latvia are. Perhaps the Baltic Duchy should be the alternative:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Baltic_Duchy

[The Lawspeaker]

Interesting nuances. You seem to place much value on hemispherical view of Continental Germania: N/S/E/W. If these conditions are observed, then there really is no point, because that is the status quo, save for the disappearance of Prussia in present conditions. Critics of the Germanic Prussia fail to note that at least the name would survive into posterity, even if it is not Baltic the way Lithuania and Latvia are. Perhaps the Baltic Duchy should be the alternative:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Baltic_Duchy

O.K.. you don't get it. Prussia is a German land and ought to be a German Bundesland. Note that the word land should be used as in soil (soil meaning something that is a part of the people) or a state as Bundesland in German. I place much value on the idea of a single nation - where possible as the Luxembourgers, Dutch (and Belgians) and Swiss would never want to join Germany. But maybe the Austrians and Liechtensteiners would.

It's called irredentism. The will to unite the people of your kin in one unified nation - in the same way as some Dutch want to unite the Netherlands and Flanders or even the Netherlands and the whole of Belgium.

Where as an all-German state would unite all of the German volk (apart from the Dutch and Swiss).. yours would create a conglomerate of peoples that have nothing to do with each other.

[Johnston]

O.K.. you don't get it. Prussia is a German land and ought to be a German Bundesland. Note that the word land should be used as in soil (soil meaning something that is a part of the people) or a state as Bundesland in German. I place much value on the idea of a single nation - where possible as the Luxembourgers, Dutch (and Belgians) and Swiss would never want to join Germany. But maybe the Austrians and Liechtensteiners would.

It's called irredentism. The will to unite the people of your kin in one unified nation - in the same way as some Dutch want to unite the Netherlands and Flanders or even the Netherlands and the whole of Belgium.

Where as an all-German state would unite all of the German volk (apart from the Dutch and Swiss).. yours would create a conglomerate of peoples that have nothing to do with each other.

You are saying you do not care for pre-Prussian, or even pre-Austrian Germany, or Prussia in its own right? No monastic state of Teutonic Knights? Are you despaired at the culture and sustainability of Prussia as much as its opponents, vis a vis Austria? Independent Prussia would be as good as Oestmark/Oesterreich is, and they split from Bayern. How could you appreciate Prussia only as a sublimated province? I mean, it is nice Germany thought so well of Prussia to place them at the helm in lieu of Austria, but Germany is not Prussian to begin with (Germany is not a Baltic country--the North Sea is named the German Ocean for a reason), although Prussia is German (the German Baltic), and a Saxon (Plattdeutsch) offshoot in particular. You do see the difference, right? Prussia's downfall was taking Germany up on the offer to helm the Reich, because look at the thanks they got. They do not even exist now except in memories and a broken nation scattered like the Jews across the globe. Germany should look to the Rhineland and remember its origins, and let the eastern colonizers keep their own fortune away from prying jealous hands. I would be wary if I was Prussian or Austrian at the designs of Germany to take the gains of my countrymen out from under them through annexation. Who should profit from their labors?

[Arrow Cross]

Back on the map? Where exactly? Prussians have been so throughoutly cleansed from their lands by the Anti-Fascist Coalition of Equality, Peace and Love that they don't even make up one percent of the area's population now, as far as I know. The only way for Germans to re-establish the state is the way their enemies misplaced them; by invading the land and throwing the Poles and Russians living on it out. Won't happen in a good couple of centuries; but if you want it on the map, might I suggest Antarctica? As much as I admire pre-1945 Prussia, with "virtues" like this...

The count later rang me as I was taking the train back to Berlin. “Tolerance,” he barked. “Forgot to tell you—that’s the cardinal Prussian virtue. Make a note of it!”

...that'd be the most productive spot, as far as Europe is concerned.

[Johnston]

Back on the map? Where exactly? Prussians have been so throughoutly cleansed from their lands by the Anti-Fascist Coalition of Equality, Peace and Love that they don't even make up one percent of the area's population now, as far as I know. The only way for Germans to re-establish the state is the way their enemies misplaced them; by invading the land and throwing the Poles and Russians living on it out. Won't happen in a good couple of centuries; but if you want it on the map, might I suggest Antarctica? As much as I admire pre-1945 Prussia, with "virtues" like this...



...that'd be the most productive spot, as far as Europe is concerned.

Do you miss what Austria did to your country? They domesticated the Hungarians and made them Christian Europeans. The Prussians did the same thing to the Balts.

[Arrow Cross]

Do you miss what Austria did to your country? They domesticated the Hungarians and made them Christian Europeans. The Prussians did the same thing to the Balts.

Oh, please, should I throw Wikipedia links at you now? Where were the Germans of Ostmark in 1000AD, when this country became a kingdom and christened itself?

I'm telling you; licking their wounds after half a century of devastating Magyar raids.

[Johnston]

Oh, please, should I throw Wikipedia links at you now? Where were the Germans of Ostmark in 1000AD, when this country became a kingdom and christened itself?

I'm telling you; licking their wounds after half a century of devastating Magyar raids.

Yes, that's how things were to be, century after century, up until WWI? Right...

[Arrow Cross]

Yes, that's how things were to be, century after century, up until WWI? Right...

Up until 1526, when the House of Habsburg was able to move in following the defeat against the Ottoman Empire at Mohács, and the death of our king. But this isn't the topic here.

Now, do you have any more Yankee pseudo-history to share with us, or shall we return to Prussia?

[Johnston]

Up until 1526, when the House of Habsburg was able to move in following the defeat against the Ottoman Empire at Mohács, and the death of our king. But this isn't the topic here.

Now, do you have any more Yankee pseudo-history to share with us, or shall we return to Prussia?

I compared the eastward movement of Prussia with Austria. They were both German colonies meant to stem the advance of peoples from that region, and I have maps showing their conquests. Quite beautiful and spectacular. They have turned the simpletons out there into perfect clones of themselves, and that is what you call civilizing. The French did that all over Earth, but the Germanic version is more glorious, and has people all over these forums shouting Heil Hitler in imitation. The product of English imperialism, like this Yank here, have as much to benefit from this as the next person, albeit, as one of the conquerors, and not the conquered. Thanks!

[Fred]

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...31#post4393031

I wish Frederick could have seen this. He was so insightful!